SPEAKER_00 0:00

Live. We're live.

unknown 0:01

All right.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This is live. Anytime you're ready. We're ready to start. I have a question to start with.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

You have a question to start with. This is a good one. All right.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Which Bible character would be the absolute worst person to get stuck on an elevator with?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Um absolute worst person to get stuck in the elevator with. Elijah.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Why?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

I figure like after he's been stuck out in the wilderness so long, he'd probably be really smelly and it's a tight area and everything. So what's your answer? I don't have that. You never have an answer. I know. I know. All right. Well, welcome to not for Sunday morning. My shirt. Thanks. I uh I got this from a uh friend today. He handed it to me. So I forgot to wear mine. You didn't you didn't want to look like me on it? No, I didn't want to have to wear your own merch on your show. You can because how is he gonna show it off? Like you're gonna be like, hey, check this out. Oh lordy. Anyways, we're in our series. Um uh questions kids ask, and we are looking at um week seven, I think we're on this week. Are we is this a nine-week series? Okay, all right. So week eight, and our question is what about hell?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

What about hell?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Um it was a little more complex of a question than that, but um nuanced. A little more nuanced, but it's a good question. It's I think you addressed early on that the uh comment of we don't churches don't really talk about hell very often. And and I mean you can understand why, like it's not excusable, but it's understandable at a certain point. So um I thought it was interesting like as you went through it. Like um, I think the the the first thing that really stuck out to me is when you said uh who get uh who gets the final word on hell. And you mentioned like there's Oregon and uh Dante and Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Did you read Dante?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Um I have read Dante, yeah, yeah, the nine layers of hell, abandoned hope, all ye who enter. Um yeah, so I think I really in in all honesty, I think I I think a lot of what we think of hell is formed from Dante. If I had to pick one voice that really really formed it, I think it's Dante. It was interesting you meant mentioned C.S. Lewis. So I don't know, were you looking at like the Great Divorce or something like that? Yeah. So that's interesting because and we'll probably get into this topic a little bit. Most people a lot of people like to think it's about hell, but really Lewis, because he's Catholic, is actually writing about purgatory mostly. Yeah. So and maybe we can distinguish between some of those ideas as we as we go on a little bit. But um, yeah, um what remind me because I don't I'm not familiar with what origin organs um that it's ultimately purifying.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Okay, so it removes all the evil, basically. Like hell.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

So almost like a purgatory type idea.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Okay, all right. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

I just I just wasn't familiar with this. Um the idea that uh Jesus actually talks about hell quite a bit. More than I realized. Um how much did you think versus your realization once you dug in?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Um I knew what he did a little bit. Um I didn't realize the depths and the amount in comparison to other writers or other speakers. Um yeah, it was more than I anticipated.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

So Yeah, I mean it and cause it's almost like little lines and little blurbs. It's not like uh dissertation on it, you know, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Although he does Matthew 25, it's a big one where he separates the goat from the sheep. And that was all that one almost was in the sermon. Um that got ripped out at the middle of the week, but like that idea because he goes pretty intently on there. It's at the words at the end, there are eternal destruction. Um, and so there's debate of what that means. Like, is this forever? Is it you know, we'll get into that in a minute, too. Yeah, yeah. So what does the punishment look like?

SPEAKER_02 3:40

There's that nuance of what and and a lot of thoughts on it, because again, we build, I think we build a lot of our theology off of what um Dante put, and and it, and so it's yeah, it's difficult to to build that one. Um I like that you used uh the rich man Lazarus because you know at least he gives us a a somewhat picture, but but that question I guess or or the you know is how much doctrine should we really build off of that that you know, is it is it a parable? I know you said like maybe we shouldn't lay everything on the other.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, no, I think more of like the bigger picture of like Jesus is there is a a final place and there is some kind of at that point you can't change your mind. And so for me, it's like what matters in this life matters in the next life. And so it's not like because there was some debate like well once you die, then you can make the decision to get better or whatever. And like, and Jesus is pretty clear that once you die over. And so I think that's an that for me, that's the bigger picture takeaway from that are those points of it. Not so much what it looks like and all that. Uh, that's not I don't think that really was important to Jesus, but yeah, yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Um I also really liked what you said. There are a couple uh lines that that blend to not blend together, but but guide us in the same direction. So like your line, judgment exists because something has gone terribly wrong. Like um I think a lot of people, um, I think Christians and and m mostly non-Christians, but I think Christians alike, not all of them, but a lot of them when they don't like the idea of hell, and so they would rather much much rather ignore it or say it doesn't exist because of that. But realizing that something has gone wrong and that um and I think that's one of the stronger arguments of that. I think I think you went through that really well. Um I liked how you ch sorry, challenge that um you asked, like, can God actually be loving if he never judged? I we we kind of talked about that when I preached a little bit too, but but it's it's it's a true statement, like and it's uh uh another one that's hard for us to grasp or or want to come to terms with, but but there's a reality to that. And and I always go back to the loving parent, like if you don't ever discipline your child, are you really loving your child, you know, at that point? And and if we think of ourselves as God's children, there has to, you know, and and because we're God's creation, like we have to really, really look at that. Yeah. Um, and I think my favorite line was God takes our choices more seriously than we wasn't that great line. That was a great line.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Like that is true though.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Like, I think we just like have half-heartedly like, oh, whatever. But like if that's our choice, he'll honor that choice. Yeah, that'll I think it breaks his heart. I don't think it's something he wants, and I think he has proven again and again. That's the other thing, like, what more could he do? I didn't get to say that, but like he's done everything to try to keep us out of hell, you know, like that's right.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yeah, he yeah, I mean everything like what more could he do? I mean yeah, even if you go back to basic, you know, like what Paul talks about, like there's always been revelation, like, and so if you choose to ignore that, you know, and not follow the right way. But no, no, I thought uh overall it it was it it was good.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Like I I really wish we'd do one of these and you would tell me it was terrible and you suck. Okay, that makes it a lot more than that. You want me to start start over with this one? This this one is horrible.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Like I hated every second of the time.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

No, I I No, it was fun. It was a fun conversation, it was a challenge. I love being up for the challenge. I like stepping into things that we don't talk about, and it really explore why we don't talk about things. And so that for me is is interesting. I um um the whole beginning that was kind of on the this morning type of thing, because I had a whole different opening, and then I thought I really want to connect with the folks, and so I did this thing where I had people think of somebody like in their head. Yes. And it reminded me of my grandma, I know my grandma thought of me. And so trying to again, I think when you personalize it, it makes it a lot more difficult. Uh it can't be as cold. Because some folks are just like, well, that's hell, and that's what it is, and they're just jerks about it. But when you see that as your mother, your brother, your sister, your f whatever, all of a sudden now there's like a human element to it, like, oh, this is a real thing. And so what do I do with this? And I wanted people to feel that tension. So that was kind of a fun little hook to get me in.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Well, I I I thought when I thought of when you presented that and and I was thinking about that, um, the uh Pendulette story comes to mind. Yep. So uh Pendulette's uh uh magician illusionist that um uh is a known well-known atheist, and um and so one after one show a guy comes up to him and and um looks to see him after the show and and asks to give him and his handsome Bible, and and he's like, uh you know, I want you to have this. I want you to know that I really care about you, uh pray for you, and uh my cards in there if you ever want to call me or anything like that. And so Penn gets on his little podcast, whatever he does was doing at the time, and um talks about and and and from a man who's an atheist and a man and and he's very smart, he's an intellectual person, and he said, he said this, he it he it really moved him because um he he and he challenged, I think, if people go and watch it, he challenged Christians. He's like, How much do you have to hate somebody to not share the word of Christ with them? Because because he said, if you really believe that that someone's gonna go to hell because they don't believe in Christ, like where are you at on that? And so, yeah, so it's and it's hard. It's hard, but yeah. So would you leave out?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I've thought a lot. Um, so a couple of the things that like what even is hell? I didn't spend a lot of time trying to describe hell. Um, so I there are some words that the Bible uses when you talk about hell. So one of those, I thought we could just spend a couple moments looking at those so like a sho Shahol, I can't pronounce that right.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Uh Sheol.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, that's the Hebrew. That's in the Old Testament, that's like the realm of the dead or the grave.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Um Yeah, it's kind of ambiguous, like it it's underground, is all that is the best way of describing it.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

It's very much like Hades, um, and that's the Greek version version of Sheol. Yeah, basically that. So it's like this holding place of again, um as people await judgment and wait await all that. Uh Gahana, so that's a word.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Gehana, yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Um, that Jesus frequently uses, and it's connected to the valley of Hinron. Um there's there's a belief that it was a garbage dump and it burned all the time. Yeah, yeah. But that actually um came much later after the fact that people started making that connection. That wasn't believed exactly what Jesus was saying. Now there was a thought of like in the Old Testament that valley uh meant bad things, because bad things happened in that valley. So there was a lot tied into that.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Right, like the lepers would hang out there.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

And like the way the people came, moved, and it so there's a lot of underlining image there, but to put it to be like he's referencing a garbage dump, that's not a flaming garbage dump.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

That's not exactly what Right, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

And then the lake of fire, and that's in Revelation, um, Revelation 20. And so um and so when someone says, Well, the Bible says hell is, I'm always like, well, let's slow down and talk about what word are you talking about, what passage, what kind of literature, what is the author trying to communicate? Um, I thought I thought it'd be fun to ask you when you growing up, what was a picture you had when somebody said hell?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Well, I I think a place of fire, like you know, I I know you said what's brimstone? Um uh if I remember, I I think brimstone's uh sulfur is is uh old term for sulfur.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So like I think that that picture of of almost the cartoony picture, right? Where you have little imps and demons that would pitchforks and fire, um, everything that Dante wrote about, you know, is has shaped, I think, a lot of all of our visions, uh, Christian and non-Christian alike, of what it is. And so, you know, I think Lake of Fire is a description, but not knowing how that would actually look. So just a place of burning and and torment and and whatnot. So I always remember like um growing up, like that's the thing. It's like, well, if you don't if you don't accept Christ, then you go to hell. And it's like, and that's a rough way of saying it, it's true, but it's you know, it's kind of the jerky way of saying that.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

I think I would have a better way to say it is if you if you reject Christ. Right. Like, because you're making a conscious choice, and there's a there's a consequence for that choice.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yeah, I and when you when you were talking about that, like I I always try to explain to people like when people who complain about well, how can a loving God do this, right? And my my answer is always like, well, but why would you want to spend eternity with somebody that you didn't want to spend any time with prior to that? Like you're you it is a conscious choice, like you're choosing, like, I don't want to be anything, I don't want to have anything to do with this guy. I don't want I don't want anything to do with God or Jesus. And so why would you all of a sudden want eternity with them and and to go from there?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I tease the guys I golf with how uh we gotta enjoy life now because I won't see him later.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

So one of the things I didn't uh did to dig on a little bit was the rich man Lazarus story. Okay. Um and the thing what stood out was the the rich man never actually repents. He wants relief, he wants water, he wants his brothers worn, but he never actually says I was wrong. He never asks Lazarus for forgiveness. In fact, he doesn't even speak directly to Lazarus, he asks Abraham to send Lazarus, and so I wonder what that might tell us.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Yeah, I think it's a place of unrepentance. Is it um is it uh it's I can't remember if it's in Peter or whatnot. Like so, so if you read the Apostles' Creed, um depending on which version of it you read, there's a line in there about Jesus going to hell and and uh when he died, when he died, and uh and it comes from like I want to say it's like first or second Peter, where uh he writes a line about him going to hell to um preach the gospel to all that had died before um him. And I I think it's a I don't know if it's misunderstood or if it's just not understood, you know, um what that really means. Like one of those lines in the Bible, like we we don't really know what that means, and so we just kind of don't touch it very often as a thing. Um but uh but part of it it part of that that line is nobody accepted anything that he said. Like he didn't come out of hell with anybody with him, and so um, so yeah, so it I think it's a conscious choice. I think, you know, again, like you said, it it's a choice, it's a choice of myself over God at that point.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah. So then the other thing I didn't leave out, this is the last thing really. I don't know if you got a bunch, but like is talking about um the exact nature of final judgment, like what happens after final judgment. So there's a few different thoughts, and one of them, so first one is eternal conscious torment, and this is like the traditional view where you'll be suffering the rest uh forever. You're always gonna be suffering So people who go to hell, you mean yeah, people go to hell, they're judged, they're judged, they're judged, and their punishment is they're eternally tormented forever. That's what the traditional view is.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

I've heard that view, yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Another view is uh annihil uh Annihilation.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, I can't pronounce that. That's okay. But that means like you just preached, so we'll give you that that much at least.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah, that um that means like um the judged and then they're killed. And that's it. It's over.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, they ceased cease to exist. Soul no longer exists, everything they're totally destroyed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

And then the view number three is ultimate or universal reconciliation. Eventually everyone will be reconciled to God God. Um and so that is like everybody at the end will have a chance to make it right. They'll stand before God and say, I was wrong, you're right, and everything will be all all good. Again, I would love that to be the case, but scripture does not really support that.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

It doesn't at all.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

It doesn't at all. And the places where they you can kind of make some some verses dance do not hold up under scrutiny. And so that I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Yeah, I struggle with that third one. I mean, the first two, like I think it's a nuanced description, like I think it's difficult to say one way or the other. It's it's trying to peek behind the veil and and we just don't have an answer. And and is it a place of eternal torment? Which which and and even that can be debated. What does that actually look like too, right? Because um even though we live here on earth and we're sinful, God's still present for everyone. Yeah, right? Sinners and and and Christians and non-Christians and and um and it's he's there, and so one of that view of eternal torment sometimes, like we we can go to the Dante view, right? Where we're burning and whatever that looks like in the seven layers and or nine layers, and but um but some views of that is actually it it's a cessation of God's presence.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

And that is that is eternal torment. Yeah. Um, and and so so we don't know what that's like, and and it I can only imagine how horrible that would be.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, that's the that's I think the whole big takeaway. Is this the place you don't want to be?

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

And so what do you do to um yeah, how what do you do in response to that? So that's kind of where I was at on getting the push back on me. I got some quick fire questions if you want to.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Do you wanna um do you want to cover purgatory a little bit or have a conversation on it? Do you have any any thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I definitely believe there is a holding place between here and the end. Whether before we get to heaven, before we get to hell, whatever those look like, I believe there is some kind of holding place. Now, purgatory is different in that you can change in purgatory, you can change which direction you're going. And that I don't believe. But there is a I believe it's hard for me not to believe that there is some sort of intermediate place. Now, again, I think the way we understand time is it's probably gonna be like a second, we're not even gonna know it, like it's gonna be so quick, but there is some type of a holding place. And Paul talks about being in Christ and and there's this holding place before he returns.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

There's um well, he talks about the I mean, even when you read Revelation, right? And and you there's this description of the throne room, right? And and the elders and and the saints and all of them, right? The prayers of the saints going on, yeah. And so there's something going on at that point, right? Um j just to kind of like uh nuance purgatory a little bit, my understanding is if the the people who are going to hell are still going to hell, they don't they don't wind up in purgatory. Purgatory is um more of a you were a Christian, but you weren't a great Christian. And so we're gonna make you a better Christian. Okay, and so we're gonna refine you a little bit more and give you the opportunity to improve and become more Christ-like at that point.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

And so that's silly because Paul talks about that almost in Ephesians and Colossians, where he talks about that being like the you can't baptize people after they're dead.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah, yeah. Uh I think that's in Colossians.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

That's silly. Like that's uh once again, once you're dead, it's over. So I think that's the reality of it, the stark reality of it. And what do we do with this life now? You know, yeah. So that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

No, 100%. All right. Pushbacks. Um, okay, so you you don't I'm gonna be very simplistic in what I said, but you said people choose hell, right? Um, and and you're really not reducing the sermon to that phrase, but um it's more of human freedom argument is is where you're going from, right? So does so I guess where my question is, if you ask somebody who rejects Jesus, would you like eternal separation, judgment, destruction, they're gonna say no, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I don't know. I say they don't even know what they're saying no to, probably, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:32

I don't know. Yeah. So is the I guess the question is are aren't they choosing something else without necessarily believing hell is the consequence?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah, um, I don't know. I mean, I guess part of it is uh they have a clear understanding of what they're saying yes and no to, you know, and I think that the spirit can speak to people in many different ways. And so having clarity of like, if I say if I say no to this, do we really understand the full depths of saying no? I don't think I think if we did, we wouldn't ever, right? Uh you know, but I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

I don't yeah, I don't know either. Like it's it's one of those things like this is hard because then that kind of gets in my next pushback a little bit on on uh the idea of does love require libertarian free will? So if heaven contains people who eternally love God and never reject him, um and genuine love can coexist with an inability of rebellion, why wouldn't God create us that way initially? So in other words, why does if why wouldn't God just create us so that we love him?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

I mean, we're not robots.

unknown 20:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Is that really that's not really love? That's not real love. It's all you know and all you're programmed to do. You don't have a choice in that matter. I think love requires a choice, right? If I if I make a robot and the robot has to serve me and love me, does a robot really love me? Oh right, he has to. It reminds me, there's a story we told about the king and the and the fair maiden, right? And like he falls in love with the fair maiden and he can overwhelm her with his her power, but if she is you know, he shows up with uh the chariot and everything, and then she's just and shook shook by all that, and now is she really choosing to love him? And and she can and he can give her everything in the world, but he'll he'll never know if he ever has her heart, you know what I mean? Like part of it is like we have a choice in this to love God back. And and that's what I think where real love is. It's not forced, it's not manipulated, it's you have a choice to love him or not, you know. When I stood up there this week and I said I love Jesus, that really was impactful for me more than I realized. Even in my practice, it was like man, I I could stand up there and say that. I love Jesus. I trust him. Like it's a it was a pretty deep simple statement, but for me, it really moved me personally.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Um do you feel that your Isaiah line, Isaiah 55, 8 through 9, right? Um my thoughts are not your thoughts, my way, neither are my ways, your ways. Um does that ever become a or does it have the potential to become a Theological escape hatch, like when we just don't want to answer a question or come or when we feel uncomfortably challenged by something, we can just simply s say, well, it's God's way. God's thoughts are his thoughts. God's way is his way.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah, I think I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I definitely think it could be like an excuse, like, I don't want to do the work. Um, but also at the same time, like if I'm doing the work, I'm going to come up against that at some point and have to just have to rest in that fact. Like, yeah, like you could take it lazy route and be like, well, I'll just never understand anything, but I don't have to care. But that's I guess, sure. But for the people that really are seeking and searching and are digging, you're gonna have to come to a that's not a concern. It's the concern of actually submitting to that and realizing, okay, I'm not gonna have to be okay with not knowing.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Yeah, I I think and that's where I was hoping you would go with that because I really because it can people can just say, well, I don't need to know anything because of that, but I I think that's wrong. Yeah, wrong to do that. Um yeah, I think uh I think that's all I have for pushback. Good. All right, quick fire. All right, quick fire. A quick episode. This is a quick episode. We we went along the last couple ones a little bit. All right, so what do you got? Okay, heaven or hell.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Which one do you think church churches misunderstand more?

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Heaven.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Um, uh, are there degrees of judgment?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah, I didn't have time to get into that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

It probably should have been uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

I um there's that's a that's not a quick fire question.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Well, you could just simply say yes or no, and then we just leave it at that. And people will wonder forever.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yes, but it's confusing. Yeah, I don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Okay, that that sounds like the right answer.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Uh fire or darkness, which image is more unsettling to you?

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Darkness. Um did the fear of hell play a role in your conversion? Your acceptance of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah, I think so. At that age, I think that was obviously uh they pushed that pretty high. I think we watched the Hell's Gates, Heaven's Fury, or something like that. Heaven's Gates. I've heard something like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

I've never seen it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Propaganda stuff that pushed uh again, a lot of it was like scaring the hell out of you. Um literally. And I think literally yeah, and I think again, that's that's the part that's the tension I feel because we make fun of that, but then like, man, you read Jesus' words and there is some moments of like, hey, like you know, I just I think it's hard for us because the the era we grew up in, it was like everything.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

It like and it was to the point where it's like it almost felt like they missed the message of love in there. Like it's not it, you're right, we need to take it seriously, but like but I think we grew up in an era where it was just so heavy-handed, and that I think that that for the for right or wrong, it pushed us in the opposite direction, and and it's that pendulum type idea, right? My pendulum. Because you go back to like um uh uh what's his name? Jonathan Edwards and Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

I always quoted him. Did I have part of the video?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

I'm surprised you didn't actually. I've always wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

I was gonna like begin by that pounding on the table.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

But he didn't do that. That's the fun part for the couple of people.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Well, there's another guy that did, though. I have a quote from another guy that's uh more intense.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

So if you've never read the sermon Sinners in the Hands of Angry God, definitely it's it's worth the read. Um, and when you read it, you feel like it's that fire and brimstone, like pounding on the pulpit, yelling. And when John Jonathan Edwards was a Puritan early um uh 1700s, um mid-1700s in America, uh it didn't pr preach it that way according to records. Like it was very calm, very even keeled um discussion of it. And so I think it's doable. Yeah, exactly how you speak. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

I am calm and even keel. Uh you get a passionate sometimes. Wake people up. I got one last question, but I don't know where you're at.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Oh, uh go go for yours and we'll see where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

If I really believed hell was real, I would dot dot dot.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Um I mean I do believe hell is real. I it makes me pray for people that aren't believers that I love harder. I think I think if I I think sometimes it's hard to focus on the negatives of things, right? And hell's a negative, right? And so we ignore it and so or we push it to the side. And so I think I think Penn had it right when he said, um, if uh if you truly believe in hell, how how much do you have to hate someone to not tell them about it? Um but yeah, so uh have you ever avoided teaching something because you didn't want to deal with it?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Anything particular?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Do you want to share with it? Is that why?

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So hot topic. So abortion, homosexuality. Um I'm not avoiding these things. So I just my thing is I think anytime we highlight one sin over the other, we're missing the point. And so actually that's was kind of the heart of today's message was this was gonna be a discussion on certain sins, and we were gonna and I thought, well, let's just uh let's just talk about hell. Because let's not get to delineate well this sin or that sin or rate these sins. That's stupid. And so so to say that I avoid talking about those things. I don't I think I strategically I try to strategically be wise in what I speak about. But I'm definitely I'm sure there's things I don't because I don't want to, or I I hope that's not the case, but I'm sure there's no. No, I I I and I understand the I try to preach the whole council of God, and so I try my best to within like a five-year span, have taught the Bible, you know, and so strategically focusing on certain things, and you try to do it so that the that the body gets a full view of that. I don't always do well, and I do go back to topics that I like to talk about more than others, and so but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Um okay, this might not be quickfire, but does Satan rule hell?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

I don't know. I don't know. Do demons matter?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Do demons torture people in hell?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I don't know. Okay, I just I don't know. That's fine, that's fair. Um are all sins equal?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, the consequences are different, but all sins are equal. Okay. In all in eyes in the eye of God, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Um would Christianity be easier if hell wasn't real?

SPEAKER_01 28:43

I don't know. I don't know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think, I mean, I think that it just wouldn't be meaningful, right? I mean, there has to be a there has to be a concept. For love to be love, it has to have that other side of it. You know, and so I think yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

No, I agree. All right, that's what I got. That was it. That was our last podcast. No, it's not. Last one for me and you. Well, last one for me and you. Okay, so we got she's going on vacation. Um, we will not have a podcast for you next week, but we will bring it to you the week after. Um guest speaker, a guest, guest podcast host, guest podcast host that will be uh working with me uh that week. That'll get reviews. Yeah, well, we'll see how it goes. Um so I am preaching next week. Our our preview is uh the the top topic when we sat down and wrote this, and I I've stuck with it, yeah, is creation question marks. Yes. Um this has been a rough one to write.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Like oh come on.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

No, it has been. This is a personal topic for me, and so it's it's hard to write. It's easy. Um in your eyes, that's why you're not preaching it. I took hell. You did take hell.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

And lastly, hypocrites and a lot of commodity heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah. Creation off.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

It's right there. It's in a poem. It is.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

We'll we'll do good, but we'll have a guest host and we'll um we'll see how that goes. He's a little nervous, so be kind to him. Send send good reviews in. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

And keep sending in your questions.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah, did you get any or no? Nope. Well, that's that's fair. I think our three people have already asked their questions.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

You don't have to watch it to send questions. So all right. Uh this has been a blast, and I'm glad we got to do it this year. Um glad it's over.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Yeah, sorry you it won't be the last one. Maybe. But uh we'll see. We'll go from there. All right. Well, thanks. Smash and review for whatever reasons. Don't do any of that. We like to hear from you, so write write your encouraging notes to Steve. Tell him how awesome he is. Yep, I need to hear those. Um, because he needs it. And tell me how terrible Chris is because he needs to hear that. He doesn't care. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

I wish I could be like that.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

I already told told the the our guest host, I'm like, listen, you can say whatever you want about me. I'm like, I roll off my back. That's awesome. Um, so all right. Well, thanks for watching. And keep asking good questions. There you go. I almost told you line.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

You should have.