Not for Sunday Mornings
When the Sunday sermon isn't enough. Join us as we unpack what was spoken about on Sunday with all the extra stuff that didn't make it.
Not for Sunday Mornings
Can I trust the Bible?
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Can we really trust the Bible? And if we say we do, what does that actually mean for how we live?
This week on Not for Sunday Mornings, Chris and Steve dig deeper into where the Bible came from, how the books were chosen, why context matters, and what historical evidence says about its reliability.
We also tackle some of the harder questions: What do we do with difficult passages? Why does the Catholic Bible have more books? Does calling the Bible a “story” minimize its authority? And how does the Holy Spirit help us understand Scripture?
Plus, which Bible characters would be absolutely unbearable in a group chat?
If you’ve ever had questions about the Bible but weren’t sure you were allowed to ask them, this episode is for you.
I gotta okay. So um before I jump in, I got a question to start.
SPEAKER_00So we're starting now, and you're gonna start with a question. Did you we're starting?
SPEAKER_02This is a better question.
SPEAKER_00A better question.
SPEAKER_02What what Bible story would make the worst kids' movie?
SPEAKER_00Um My gut was my first gut was Samson Del Delilah. Would probably make the worst. Why? Um I mean the story of Samson's school, but like when you get the whole Delilah like seducing him to get him to cut his hair, to tell her, like all that. I don't know. I'd watch it. Well, you said kids. You're not a kid.
SPEAKER_02Okay, how about another one? What b what Bible character do you think would be the most annoying in a group chat?
SPEAKER_00Job. Job. Job's friends, maybe. Job complained at one. He finally he broke down and finally complained. I don't blame him for doing it, but um gosh. No, it's gotta be like one of the minor prophets. Um who's the one that um married the prostitute?
SPEAKER_03Oh, um uh yeah, I know, I know. I can't think of it. Put me on the spot.
SPEAKER_00I'm on the spot, I couldn't think of that one. You know who would be really fun though? Uh if it's a group chat, I'd I'd want John and Peter in in that group chat because I think like their back and forth would be absolutely hilarious. I think Paul and Peter, they'd be going to be a good one. Oh, Paul and Peter would be fun too. They'd add a little spice on that too. Yeah. Um okay, sorry. I just finished those are cold opening. All right, well, welcome back. Um, I don't even know what week we are right now.
SPEAKER_03Six seven, seven.
SPEAKER_00I think it's six because you got next week and I got the week after. Is that sound? I have three more weeks. You got three more weeks? I thought it was the 30th.
SPEAKER_02I got this week, next week, and the week after.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02So this week and next week. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you can this week. Yeah. Oh man.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, this week was why do I trust the Bible? Can I trust the Bible?
SPEAKER_00Can I trust the Bible?
SPEAKER_02And I ran out of a left letter, so it just says can I trust the Bible? Caveman speak. I was like, well, whatever. Can I trust the cave? Poetry for Neanderthal. That was our question this week. Oh, yeah. We should introduce the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So uh this is our uh not for Sunday mornings. I'm Chris. This is Steve. And so this is where we get to kind of dissect what we talked about on Sunday and add a little bit more and hopefully give a little bit more meaning to uh the word as we go about. Hopefully.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um I I liked it. I'm good. Okay. Done in the story. So I love no. Um so you used uh I I read that um Year of Living Biblically like year years ago when it came out. And he and AJ is a writer, he picks a lot of different topics. Like he read the entire encyclopedia once and wrote about it. Like, so he does goofy things like that. But um did you actually read the full book? Okay, so I would highly recommend reading the whole thing because it's it's really is a journey, and he's and he's essentially journaling his way to it. Yeah. Um, and and I love the ending. It saddens me. The ending does sadden me, but I still love I love w where he ends up at the end. Yeah. And and I think there's some interesting that what I found interesting was it's goofy to say, hey, we're gonna follow every little tiny thing and do it to the T and all that. But at the end of the, at the end of his journey, you can see a change in him. Like, and he emits a change in him. So there's something that changed just from him reading and and trying to apply, you know, at that point. So so I loved, I love that you you you quoted AJ because um he he's a funny guy, and that's a great book to read.
SPEAKER_02Um, on a first name basis with the author, AJ.
SPEAKER_00It's Applegate. Is his last name Applegate? I couldn't remember his last name. I just remember his first name. Um, okay, so one of the lines you wrote was I taught, I was taught not to question the Bible. So you and I have different church backgrounds. We grew up in the same time frame, um, but slightly different church backgrounds, and there's a lot of overlap and similarity. Um, I don't know that I was ever told not to question the Bible. Um I don't know that we were ever taught to question the Bible, but I don't know if it was expressly forbade.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know. And again, I don't know if it was I don't yeah, I don't think there was ever like a you don't question the Bible. There was a as a as a young person, I felt that you don't question the pastor and you and so thus you don't question the Bible, you don't question anything. And so I was that was whether it was I picked up on that, whether that was taught explicitly or not. Um, but I do remember that like you don't question. And I grew up in a church where there wasn't, it wasn't elder led, it was uh pastor-led. Um and so it was one one guy who kind of ran the whole show. Again, great, great pastor, love, love him, taught me a lot.
SPEAKER_00But that that that idea of you know don't question God's anointed, or you know, like there was do you think it comes from the idea that like you as kids were told the Bible's true, the Bible's true, and so like if it's true, I can't question it, maybe. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so. I think I yeah, I would I would think so that this you know, in a world that is so chaotic, here's the one thing we can hang on is this is true.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so um we'll just hang on that that it's true. Um and so yeah, it was true. And so and again, I'm not saying the Bible isn't true.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's not what we're getting at, but but I I'm just wondering if like we as kids interpret it that way, and it just kind of passed on all the way from I mean, you think about high church where it was read in Latin and only a few could understand it and all that, and so I think it just kind of trickles down like the pastoral office, whatever that is, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00True, and and I agree with you, and I and what I think I'm most proud of us as a church is I feel like we care about the pastor. It's always we don't, yeah, that's the best part. No, we love our pastors, but I I feel like we love them enough that we started to recognize that that pastoral idea is not healthy. Like like the way it used to be, like where it's like you were the center, you lived on the you lived at the parsonage on the property and all that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's not bib, I mean it's not biblical. So so I think maybe that's where that came from. And then the the questioning of the Bible. Of course you never question the Bible. That's the word of God. Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, and so um and I think there's a difference between questioning it and having questions about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Um yeah, maybe. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I yeah.
SPEAKER_00Maybe I I get where you're hemming and hawing on that. I could see that. Okay. Um we so we try not to talk before this, and we did mention a few things yesterday um after the service. We did? There was a couple things that I think we brought to each other's attention. Like you're like, oh, I wish or I did so so um So I'm gonna I'm gonna call you out on this because this is one that you're like, I didn't actually do this. Can the Bible be trusted versus do I trust the Bible? Can the Bible be trusted? So so you you say if if um if I claim scripture is God's words, but it still sits an open on a shelf, maybe more revealing question is not whether the Bible is trustworthy, but whether I can actually trust it enough to live by it.
SPEAKER_02I think I said it has the authority in my life. Yeah. I gave it authority, I think was the word I used. Um and so the question was what?
SPEAKER_00So so can so just like the idea of can the Bible be trusted versus do I trust the Bible? Like it's it's just an interesting point. Like and I think I think when you talked to me yesterday, you're like, um you you felt like you kind of dodged the qu actual question of can I trust the Bible?
SPEAKER_02I put it more like, yeah, like, yeah, can the Bible be trusted? We didn't, and well, maybe we'll dig into a little bit later, but like actually the historical accuracy of the Bible and manuscripts and all that. I kind of skipped around all that mainly because we did that last year and I didn't want to redo that. Yeah. Um and then I wanted to make it a little more personal. And so yeah, is if the Bible is that, then can we actually if we really believe that the Bible is what it says it is, then how does that affect my life? Because I think there is a there is a disconnect there where we say one thing with our words, but then our actions don't back that up. Like if we really believe this is God's word and God wrote this or inspired. And this can't, you know, this then why is it not read all the time? And why isn't it all I listen to? And why do I turn and find my other you know, allow other things? Like why is it why for so many is it lowered in a in a in a list of other things? And so that's my kind of my my pushback on that is you know that a little bit of that.
SPEAKER_00No, I I think that's fair. Um I did like this too. Um, and uh as I was listening to you, because I've got the last message of the of the series, um, I was like, oh, he's stealing my thunder, he's stealing all my ideas. He's because it this is a tough one to write just because it's hard not in and insider baseball. You texted me the night before and like it's informational, it's not inspirational. The night before I was pretty you were you were down on it and uh really rough. Uh but you felt good coming in. But um the uh the the idea the Bible is not primarily uh is not primarily an instruction manual.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's important. And um I liked the ideas that you tossed out there um with that in in terms of talking about it. And I think that's for me, I like I don't know if we have the time, but I I'd like to explore that just a little bit more because I think um because it's I I think we turn to it as an instructional manual because it's the word of God, right? And it does have instructions in it, um, but not on and so we we co go to it and say because this is how we we're taught, I think this is how I'm supposed to live my life, right? And so it becomes a default instruction manual, rightly or wrongly, in that regard. And so even though not all the parts are instructional, we treat it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we can miss the bigger picture. We can miss what's actually happening on a larger level because we get so in the weeds of don't do this, do that, don't, you know. And try and so I think we miss the bigger, the bigger picture. The bigger idea of it for sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_00I I liked your 5x story. I know you I know that wasn't yours.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, again, I love NT right.
SPEAKER_00But it was a it was an interesting way. I I'd never um I guess never thought or heard of it in that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was clever and it allowed, I think again, it tells us it puts us in where we are, and I think it helps put some scripture, especially some of the old testament stuff, in its proper place. I didn't spend a whole lot of time breaking down the three capsule laws, you know, the civil, the moral, and the um um what did I how did I call it? It's uh civil, moral, and um Um worship, basically the worship laws. Um and so I didn't break down all those as much as time because again, Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and so and it really wasn't super relevant. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02I just wanted to I did want to stress like the moral laws is still consistent, like but a lot of the other things, you know, are they were for a specific time for a specific purpose. For specific people. I did want to highlight more and more, and I I did a little bit, but like the idea that Israel is this uh God's people and the nation of Israel is this whole thing, and there's a whole mess with that. And I think that um it's probably isn't the place for that.
SPEAKER_00I think you did well with that because like I think I think I called that hot garbage.
SPEAKER_02If I didn't, I should have because that's for me, it's a personal because I think Israel is a mission field. And I think when we think that just because these people were born in an area that they are all of a sudden like we are completely missing anything that happens in the New Testament, anything that Jesus says, and it's and now God uses people to reach the world, but there's still people that need to be reached. And so I think we get all jacked up, and I think, especially in America, the the whole pol political side of it is just a mess.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, and I and I don't remember if you used Todd Garbage or not, but No, I probably didn't. But there was um the the way you described it, because like that that's the thing, and I think again, going back, and I know we've we've said this before, you know, I think the Old Testament was largely ignored um when it came to talking outside of just general Bible stories that came out of it and not seeing the bigger picture of what the Old Testament really was about, is that idea that it's pointing to Christ, right? And and and I think I don't remember your words exactly, but it it was along the lines of how Israel was the process to get to that, right? And and and or the tool or or however you want to look at that. And it doesn't it doesn't relegate them backwards, it doesn't it doesn't take them to a lower peg because that's that's not true at all because Christ came for the Jews first, right? And so um, so yeah, I think I it was it was good to point that out, like that, remind people why the Old Testament exists and and what we need to do with it, and go from there. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was fun. Second service was a blast. I really felt on a personal level, like this I don't know, worship the spirit was moving in a way I hadn't I hadn't experienced in a while. There was a freedom, and it was all by the grace of God because again, getting up there and like it was challenging this week and and it was a rough week uh personally, anyways, with trips to Iowa back and forth and time crunch, it was a rough week. And so when God I'm always amazed that when the spirit shows up and does that, I just am in awe and I'm just grateful. I grateful that I get to be in that place at that time and enjoy it, hopefully as much as those listening. You know, for me it was an enjoyable experience.
SPEAKER_00I always feel like it's the best response from the ones I think are the worst. The the the ones that I'm like, this is just hot garbage. Yeah and and I don't know. But anyway, so what do what do you got to add on?
SPEAKER_02Also, what didn't make the sermon was I had a whole chunk about slavery and women.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I had a question on slavery, but I skipped it. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And so a lot of times when we read uh the Bible, we can say especially the Old Testament, we say, well, why did God include slavery or why doesn't it it it address, especially in even in the New Testament, like why doesn't Paul just condemn it and all this stuff? And so I I with both both of those issues specifically uh slavery and women, there's this phrase called a forward redemptive movement. And the the thought is like again, God's word is dropped into this world that's already broken and uh and just a hot mess. And so um you have uh we'll take slavery and women on this level here. Um and what you what you begin to see as you read the old testament is it doesn't just e eradicate it, right? Um but it does point it forward. And so you start seeing and then you get to the New Testament, you see all of a sudden, um I mean you go to Philip Philippians, of course, or uh Philomen, of course, but Galatians 3.20, you know, there's no slave and difference, no difference. You begin to see Paul elevate the conversation to a higher place. And you see, again, women are the very same thing. Women were treated as uh property and all that, and all of a sudden Jesus comes along and we're gonna put women up a little bit. And and so it's not where it needs to be, but it's on a forward path that is uh upward and momentum. So it's we're we're headed in a direction where it needs to be. And that's how I think we get to where um eventually Christians like William Wilberforce um argued against slavery from scripture. Now I know folks use script slavery, scripture for slavery, but here's where you start to begin to see people fight that narrative by seeing that forward redemptive arc. Um again, that's reading the Bible in context and and for the moment it what where it was and where it wasn't. And so again, Paul, a lot of people say, well, why didn't Paul just completely remove slavery? Why did he say? And so I I would argue the reason he didn't do that is because all of a sudden the Jesus movement would be an anti-slavery movement. And the Jesus movement was always about Jesus, right, not anything else. And so he does say some very subversive things to masters and to um and to slave slaves himself. And again, also I think for us in in America, we have this um we have one view of how slavery is, right?
SPEAKER_00It was a definitely a different view. It was completely different.
SPEAKER_02It was completely different. I mean, um yeah, it was completely different. I mean, kidnapping people and to go into slavery, it was condemned. Right. And slavery in America was people were kidnapped to go into slavery. It wasn't it wasn't at all like a the way it was. And again, not condoning or anything. No, no. Because again, you see the Bible elevating it to where it too too forward to get to a place where we are now and even hopefully even going higher because we're not nearly where we need to be, but it's better than it.
SPEAKER_00Well, and and and like you pointed out, like with uh Wilberforce and uh and if people aren't familiar with their history, he's he's the British guy, uh parliamentarian who essentially gets uh Britain out of the slave trade. And then um it still lasts um some time here in the States, but the um but it it's the Christians that are the main driving force behind that. And and be I believe because like what you say, how Paul writes and how Paul elevates the slave in those circumstances and those situations, it it's the key driver behind that. And that's why, like, where you see Christianity, you don't see slavery, you know, yeah anymore in the world. It's because because Christians understand and have eradicated essentially at that point. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I didn't talk about and then I also didn't talk, I talked briefly, briefly about the doctrine of inspiration, but I didn't talk about the doctrine of illumination. And so the doctrine of inspiration is simply uh 2 Timothy, uh all scripture is inspired by God. And the fact that God would use inspire these human writers to write the Bible. And so what's what's beautiful about that is like Luke sounds like Luke, Paul sounds like Paul. These authors are themselves, they bring their own personalities, their literary styles, and yet a God worked through them to speak. So that's the doctrine of inspiration. But the doctor of a doctrine of illumination is how the spirit helps us then to understand the scripture. And so um that's again, that's not like so we just pray and close our eyes, all of a sudden now we understand everything. There's still work to be involved. We still study, we still uh wrestle, we still use commentaries, we recognize our own biases, right? Um but the same spirit help us helps us hear God, um, helps us understand what God actually said. And so I think that's wrestling with those two doctrines.
SPEAKER_00Again, I didn't think that was super necessary for Sunday morning, but I kind of No, but I I think you you you did, without calling it out directly, did highlight on that because you did mention like um what was the verse you used from Paul about uh not needing teachers anymore? First John. Yeah, first John. Oh, okay. So sorry. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02John Paul, John, same guy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, same guy. Um but they uh They weren't a great band. Um they were. Just needed two more. Peter was there too, right? Um so, anyways, uh you you talked about commentaries and like I know you use digital.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, I have low access software glasses, your software.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and um this is not a plug for them, but they've got a great program and and it's open for anyone to use. You do have to buy your resources at no they have a free version of it. They do have free, but but you get a limited resources on that one. Um I'm a paper guy, so I buy the physical copies of it because that's just how I do. But yeah, I mean for anyone going to study the Bible, like it's hard to do it alone. And you can sit there and you can um try to say, well, what's this mean to me and and that, um, but we can stand on the shoulders of giants and we can see what other people and I think the important thing idea always whenever we go and study the Bible is is say uh is ask like what what is God trying to teach me through this? What is how does this how does this compare to the redemptive arc of Christ? And and and if we ask those few questions, I think it helps us to understand it. And there's definitely there's still verses that nobody understands. We were actually talking to them about one yesterday. Um, and and so there's verses like we just don't get, yeah, you know, and and we can sit and we can try to wrestle with them. And then and I think that's where the idea of like in the verse, you know, everyone has to, you know, work out their own salvation with fear and trembling, right? Um, what what do these things mean? But but the important I I think the the important word in that verse is is you have to work out your own salvation, right? And I think it's fear and trembling because there's a humility to it.
SPEAKER_03Like I don't know what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00Right, but if but but you can have but you can be fair and trembling about something you know nothing about, right? And so if you're not if you're not trying to improve and and work your way through it, then what then it's the wrong type of fear and trembling, right? And so that's what didn't make it out.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right. But I do have a couple other things that I don't know where we are in time. I don't know where we are, but I'm but like I got like so like how we got the Bible, like who decided what books are in the Bible? Um comparing our Bible to the Jewish Bible to the Catholic Bible, even the Protestant Bible. And so um, first of all, the Old Testament is the Old Testament, it's the Jewish scriptures that existed before Christianity. Um it's they have the same books we have, just in a little bit different order.
SPEAKER_00They're a different order, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it's the same book, so same number of books, same or not number of books, different number, but but same texts. And so that's that's what that is. Now the New Testament, though. So how did the New Testament come about? This is actually uh quite fascinating because the New Testament, again, a lot of people think like it it was formed and this council came together and then grabbed all these books. The the coun a council did come together and grab all these books, but at that time those books were already considered scripture, and so very they were being used consistently.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't like yeah, it was just yeah.
SPEAKER_02Very, very early. Very early, churches were reading Paul's letters, the gospels uh right away, um, and recognition happened over time. Now, the way they were selected is because they had to have um an apostle uh connection, so it had to be directly connected to somebody who was with Jesus. Correct. Um and so uh consistency with uh received faith and it had to be used amongst the churches, widespread use amongst churches. So that's how we got the New Testament. Um, the order and stuff, that's fine. But like that's how we got the books that are in there were the books that the earliest churches were using at that time, those closest to Jesus were using at the time, and considered scripture. And so it's not like some guy's got in a room and said, Oh, we're gonna pick this one, not pick that one. This is what was being used, and it was kind of just solidified. Here's here's our Bible.
SPEAKER_00We we're agreeing on this, and now we're formally agreeing on this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00What was wasn't there a part about that they had to be canonical, like they had to to show that redemptive arc story? I thought that was part of it. Okay, all right. I thought that was part of it. Um because um like we can go into the New Testament and we see books that are not part of let's go there. Yeah, let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_02Because I want to talk a lot about the Protestant Bible and the Catholic Bible. Because the Protestant Bible has sixty-six books, the Catholic has th 73 books. So they have seven extra books. A lot more reading for them folks.
SPEAKER_00And those groupings of books are called the um so Apoprika, right?
SPEAKER_02Apocrypha or the or the do do deutro canon Yeah, Deuter canonical books. Yeah, he can pronounce words better than I can. Now, okay, so I'm not gonna offend anybody. I hope I don't offend anybody. If I do, uh whatever. You can email Chris. Um then I'll so these have been rejected from the Protestant churches because they're not part of the Hebrew canon or the Aramaic texts. None of them are directly quoted in the old New Testament, unlike the Old Testament. There are allusions to them, but none of them are directly quoted like the Old Testament.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Um in fact, uh 5th century Church Father Jerome said, these are books that, though they are not esteemed like the Holy Scriptures, are still both useful and good to read. I think that they provide a historical snapshot of what it looks like to be faithful to God during this time. Um they can help us understand the New Testament world, especially 1 Maccabees, 2nd Maccabees. Great, great books. Um now, some had argued for them to be part of the canon, but that argument came after it was it was in a response to the the Reformation. So um they were actually accepted at the Council of Trent, which is a reaction to the Reformation. So it was like this church split, and all of a sudden now we're gonna add these books to our thing. The reason why we have to be careful with them, especially as I think in in our line of faith, is they do uh talk about things like prayers for the dead, worship of angels, uh purgatory, the veneration of saints. And so these are things that you'll notice the Catholic faith and the Protestant faith differ on. And it comes from these texts that again we would say uh for the reasons listed are not um highly esteemed. They're highly esteemed, they're not uh scripture, if that makes makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're they're they're just I I would use the word again, they're non-canonical. They're they're they don't follow the redemptive arc story that that's they're not holy scripture. Yeah. Um so that's the difference between the Trevor Burrus, I almost look at I almost look at those books as uh historicals, right? Like so so they're good to pull his history from, right? But but they're not we don't hang our hat on them. We hang our hat on on the actual New Testament and Old Testament.
SPEAKER_02And what's neat is I was again, I grew up first of all, ignorant of a lot of that, but then also like well, you don't touch that. We don't read that. That's bad.
SPEAKER_00I grew up that way too. And and um it was funny, I think, gosh, there was a sermon you gave and you quoted from Well, I I yeah, because well, because Joel, uh not Joel.
SPEAKER_02Oh, come on, come on, come on, come on, Steve.
SPEAKER_00Um I can't remember the sermon.
SPEAKER_02Jude. Jude quotes from uh one of the books. And so it was like he and he didn't quote, I'm sorry, it's not a quote, it's an illusion. So it's not a direct quote, but it's an illusion to. And so what but I'm like, well, hey, that was around at that time. Now again, the early churches did not deem them to be canonical.
SPEAKER_00Scripture scripture worthy.
SPEAKER_02Right, they were around, but they didn't so they knew enough to quote them because people read them, but it was like it wasn't enough to be in the scripture, what they would consider in the scripture.
SPEAKER_00Correct, yeah. So yeah, I remember because I think we had a conversation in between services, and you're like, I you were concerned about using it. I'm like, it's fine to use that. But I would I would put the asterisk on it saying, I should done it a couple of times.
SPEAKER_02I've quoted first Maccabees, especially when you talk about uh it's great on Palm Sunday because the same event that happens on Palm Sunday where uh Jesus rides in in 1 Maccabees, you see a very similar scene of a person riding in with Palm. And so it's there's some neat, neat connections there.
SPEAKER_00And the Maccabees are actually really like the uh I think it's in 2 Maccabees, uh, because and this is where I pulled these are more historical than anything. There's the time that the uh one of the many times that the Jewish people are being persecuted. Um, but in Maccabees, uh Rome is in power at this point. And so um there's a story in there about uh a guy who essentially is being tortured by um this Roman um governor, I forget what his position was, and he's being told, like, if you eat if you eat pork, I'll I'll let you go. And he's like being tortured because he refuses to give up his faith on it. Um and so like I I always pull that one because I want people, um, when Hebrews, when you go through the uh chapter 11, the I call it the Hall of Heroes, right? He the author says, like, oh, and there's many other stories we can't share in here. And in my brain, stories from the Maccabees and stuff like that are are some of those stories that are not being shared. And so I want people to to know like these are things that happen, like that it it's not part of our scripture, but it's not something we can ignore 100% either. So yeah, no, I think I think that's good.
SPEAKER_02And then the last thing that I didn't I spent time on in February, but didn't do this time was the idea of, well, can this be trusted based on historical uh context? And so there are um there's three criteria that um people use when they study historical documents, and it's um I wrote it down here. Number of manuscripts, um, time closest to let me look at here, sorry.
SPEAKER_00For the New Testament, time closest to not just the New Testament for all historical books. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Um they use To the event. The number of manuscripts, time between the original and surviving manuscripts, and the quality or a comparison of the of the said manuscripts. And so when you start looking at some of these ancient texts, it's really quite quite wild. Like even uh right now, um Homer is pretty big, right? With Odyssey and all that, and Iliad. So um there's a 500-year difference uh time span between that, and there's only six hundred and forty-three uh original copies of that. Um I mean you look at Plato, there's twelve a twelve hundred-year difference, and there's seven copies of that. Those are things that we take as as genuine. Yep the New Testament, there's a 25-year difference and there's uh 24,000 copies of original manuscripts. And so when you take that into account, and again, I can go on and on with that, uh purely on historical level, you cannot deny it. That debate is undeniable. Right. So then the the problem the problem then comes with like if we can't deny it, then the then we have to examine the claim, and the claim is that Jesus rose from the dead. And so that's where we get into trouble, because again, we can't deny Jesus was a historical figure. Right. If you're gonna deny that you're an idiot, and pull full stop. I mean there's just you're not using your that's just not historical.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's enough uh outside of the Bible sources to prove it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so forget that. And so and so if you're not I can't deny that, well then you have to look at what he claimed. And again, if he claims to be the son of and that's where we get into trouble, because it's claimed that he rose from the grave. Nobody has riven from the grave. And so what do we do with that? And that's where I think you can for me on a purely um like atheist or whatever kind of level, whatever we debate that I always go back to that. Like historically, this is what happened. Um, it can be backed up not by Christians or anything. This is what so then what do you do with that? Yeah, you you can't ignore that. Uh and so for me, that's the the greatest argument for for that. Um and so I didn't spend a lot of time with that this week again.
SPEAKER_00And and um well, it's interesting enough too, like so specifically with the resurrection, I always go to um Josephus, who's uh um Jewish historian who gets uh captured by the Romans um after the I think after the collapse of the temple, and he becomes a slave. But he essentially rewrites the the histories of the Jewish people and and in antiquity. And um there's a blurb uh first of all on Jesus, actually multiple blurbs on Jesus. Um but Josephus even in claims uh in his writings, he's like not without coming out and saying Jesus directly resurrected, but saying his believers believed he so it wasn't like a secret at that point, and it's and it's part of antiquity and it's part of other historical documents to look at that. And then um and then just to hit on that again, um, there's uh an apologist um by the name of William Wayne Craig. His whole um doctoral um thesis is on the resurrection and and evidence for the resurrection. Yeah, so that's what I got.
SPEAKER_02Um that was my that was everything, the sermon uh pushback. Push back, give it to me.
SPEAKER_00And then we got questions from the crew. Ooh. You didn't even share those with me. Oh, I don't think. This is a surprise. All right. Um, so I I think this is where we kind of danced around it. Um the sermon asks, Can the Bible be trusted? Did you actually prove that it can?
SPEAKER_02I think so.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well what's your biggest evidence for it to be trusted?
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um I mean that it's the word of God. And so okay. Um what is too hard of a question? I don't understand the question. Can the Bible be trusted? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my biggest evidence for the Bible to be trusted.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what what's your what's what's your if you're gonna if what's your elevator pitch on the Bible can be trusted?
SPEAKER_02Um again, I go back to what I just said. So we play the last five minutes. So like look at the number look at the historical evidence for the Bible being the Bible, look at how we got the Bible to where we got the Bible, and then look at the claims made by the main character of the Bible, again, historically accurate, and then what do you do with that? And so can the Bible be trusted as far as like was is it a historical document that we yes on that level? And then can the Bible be trusted with my everyday life? That probably is a different question. And again, I would say if this person is who they say they are, then that means they created life so he would know how to so of course he can be trusted. Like, you know, I that's what I would I would track in it that way. So that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00I've had uh pushback um in conversations when people have said when I've said this, and so I'm gonna push back on you a little bit. Does saying the Bible is a story minimize doctrine or commands?
SPEAKER_03No. I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I don't either, but I've had people who are like, I don't like having hearing it called a story.
SPEAKER_02Well, those are people that are don't want to aren't really fun at parties. Um who probably give out toothbrushes on Halloween.
SPEAKER_00So I'm just saying, there are stories. Like we tell stories about our lives all the time. It's it's just a word, but but some people have that. And it is a story. Yeah. Um okay, so you're I know you're a big NT Wright fan, and I know he did the five acts. Do you feel that the um I'm gonna have you call into question NT Wright? Are those too simplistic of an idea?
SPEAKER_02No. I don't think so. I mean, I don't I don't first of all, he's way smarter than me. And I don't think so. I mean if you look at the again, look at the narrative arc of the story, you see um everything began, there was a fall, you see God's uh rescue towards that fall beginning with people, then you see the outcome of that rescue, the the manifestation of that rescue in Jesus, and then you see now what, which is the church, you know. Could it be act six, but we don't know what acts that's the one to come. And so I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I think I think the preview for Act Six is new creation.
SPEAKER_02Like, yeah, and I just think that's uh yeah, I mean, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Where's the whole thing? Where's the story going to be? Yeah, well, where's it going to?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this this story is because in in the I I would push back because in the new story, none of the old stuff matters. There's no fall, there's no create, it's all gone, it's all brand new, and so there's a whole new story. This story ends and it's volume two, or whatever, or I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I would look at it as like ancient history. Like the way we study ancient history, it really doesn't have a direct effect sometimes, but okay. Um, I preached on Jesus fulfilling the ceremonial system, right? Um did he fulfill any other Old Testament laws? What? Yeah, question doesn't make any sense. So like there's civil laws, ceremonial laws, moral laws. Did did did Christ, when he said I've come to fulfill the law, right? He fulfilled the ceremonial system. Did he fulfill do you feel like he fulfilled other ones in in that regard?
SPEAKER_02So I would say yes, no, uh yeah, no, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I I think I think the question is, do do how do we actually determine because because this goes back to the picking and choosing, right? How do we determine which Old Testament laws still bind Christians?
SPEAKER_02None of them. None of them? I mean the moral laws are the moral laws. I mean, what do you mean? I mean bind it. We are saved by faith in Christ alone. Correct. Full stop.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But but some people like go and they'll quote like the the Ten Commandments. And so are we bound by the Ten Commandments still? By which do we have to follow salvation? No, just but just in general. Like there's still laws that govern our lives.
SPEAKER_02We are free to do whatever we that's what I'm getting. We are free in Christ, Christ. Those who are Christ are free and we're free. We are free. Now, does that doesn't mean those are moral laws for a reason? Um those are good things you should follow.
SPEAKER_00I'm not saying that at all.
SPEAKER_02And and if we if if the commands are to love God and love people, um again, uh those I think you look at the Ten Commandments and you see five love God, five love people, you can break them down. And so, of course, yeah, those are great handles to put on, but we are not required we are saved by grace alone, and by what Christ has done, is it's done. Now we want to follow him and mimic him in a servant leadership, and and so there's but we're not that would make everything. Yeah, I mean the the reason why I asked that's very pharasidical. I mean the Pharisees were I gotta pray this much or do this much or don't wash my hands or do wash my hands and all these laws they had to do. And that's where Christ comes in and says, What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, you're not you're not actually doing what you're missing. I guess when I when I give these pushbacks, I just think about what people think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. We're dumb people. Sorry, that's you. They're probably not watching this podcast anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true. They might not be watching.
SPEAKER_02Not anymore, they're not.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Here so then so then let's push back a little bit further on that. And that's like you have a crowd behind you with the pushback. The dozen reverence the longest final redemptive trajectory then approach. Allow us to make the Bible say whatever we want. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, I'm glad I got one that you're the redemptive forward move movement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um I would have so okay. Ooh, ah, ooh, okay. Um, well, let's go there a little bit. So let's look at another issue. Okay. Homosexuality. Yeah. An issue that's near and dear to my heart for many different reasons. And an issue that I don't want to address on a podcast callous callously.
SPEAKER_00No, I understand. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I want to be very careful with this because I I don't even know if this is the right platform for this. Um, but we're already here.
SPEAKER_00You can pick a different topic.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. We'll do that one. So um that's a topic we see in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. Correct. Um and what we see in that is we see we don't see a for a redemptive movement, we see it remain the same. And so you see it condemned in the old, then you see it condemned in the new. And so I would argue um based on that, that that would not allow us to elevate that to an uh higher than what it is. If I'm walking that carefully. So I where I where opposed to like slavery where we see that in fact one of my one of uh a great read is the book uh uh slave Women's Slaves and Women's Slavery and Homosexuality, and it addresses those three issues uh side by side, and they talk about forward and they I think the author does it very gracefully and in love. And I and again I want to have this conversation in love. I'm not I hope and this is this is what's tough on a podcast. And so so and so I so I so back to your big question is does it allow us to do that? I think again, I think when we see you have to take issues as they are and look at them as scripture as they are, and then you can can you see that? If you see that, well that's a talk about that. Um but I don't know too many other issues uh that are like that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, I I think I don't I know that's the big hot button issue, but like I I feel like sometimes people um someone would say like if we could say the Bible is merely moving people in a direction, can't we just justify almost any modern position by claiming it's where the trajectory leads? Um again, I think it we do a lot of that with and the word trajectory then becomes code for the Bible didn't say what I wanted, so I'm going beyond it.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. People can do whatever they want. People do whatever they want. I know. I think the Bible says whatever they want. I don't, I don't I I don't I don't know. I don't know. That's probably above my thinking. I don't know. I don't know. I don't I hope not. I hope we're trying to be true to the the word and true to what No, I agree. I and I think I mean because you could talk about because I know you we talk talk about issues like oh dancing in church or wearing skirts. Oh, yeah, yeah. Or all these weird things where we don't do this, we do I yeah, I I don't know. Again, we pick and choose.
SPEAKER_00We do, and and that's where like my next my last one comes back. So so does reading this podcast going on forever. Sorry. What does reading literally actually mean? And so Oh, I think I said that very clearly.
SPEAKER_02I feel like it is understanding the context of what you're reading, understanding what kind of first of all, what kind of literary style you're reading. Um we don't read poetry like we read um a um we read a historical. Um and so understanding what we're reading, um, seeing how that fits into the grander picture of of what we are reading and what is happening. Um I think that's what it means to read it to literally. It doesn't mean I don't bathe a goat in milk or whatever that crazy verse is. It's it's again, uh what does that mean at that time? What does it mean to us today? Uh and that's what it means. And it's it's having a respect enough for the word to do that work. And I think part of that is like it's super lazy to just point at a verse and read, okay, I did my part. It takes some work to like dig in and say, okay, well, what does this mean for that time? And and where does this fit into the overall arching story of the Bible? And how does this again, but if this is God's word, would we not put the work into it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think part of where I was hoping you would go is is I don't know that people many people know like what the breakup of the Bible is, like that it's not just narrative, it's not, you know, there's poetry in there, there's narrative in there, there's wisdom in there. Historical, there's uh historical, apocryphal. There's apocalyptic. Apocalyptic. Apocalyptic, sorry. Um the parables, right? So, so so understanding like when you read from the very beginning and Genesis all the way through Revelation, you're gonna get a whole slew of different um genres really of writing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we and we talked about this when we did the Revelation series where you're gonna read Revelation literat literally. Well, um the world's destroyed at one point the sun falls from the sky, or moon falls from the side. Yeah. Well, that happens, everything's gone. Like, what are you talking about? Like, this if we're gonna read it literally, then everything's happened. But but but the story keeps going. And so obviously it's not literal, it's a reference to and so again, when we read things literally, we have to part of that work is to read it literally. Yeah. And not not read it like, you know.
SPEAKER_00I find because like the one that always interests me is the book of Genesis. And it's funny because like when you get commentaries on Genesis, sometimes they're split into two parts, right? And I don't think many people understand why that is, and it's because the first half, which uh essentially goes up to right before Abraham, right? Um part of it is manuscripts that are used to put together the book of Genesis. So like we talked about the manuscripts, um, they uh that first half is only made up from two different types of manuscripts. Like there's it, I think they call them like P and L or something like that. And so, but it's a lot of it's poetic, right? It's poetry.
SPEAKER_02And and so Yeah, the first two chapters of the Bible are poem, it's a poem. It's a poem. It's a Mesopotamian poem. And so again, we read it very literally. Like, well then I would push back because day four is when the sun and so and and and you and you mentioned that, right?
SPEAKER_00And you and you and and I there's a reason for it though. I I and I thought it was beautiful how you how you presented that too, and and and and it was a really it was a good way of doing it. But yeah, so like I think I think that reading literal is sure you can, but understand what genre of literature you're reading when you're reading that particular area of the thing.
SPEAKER_02I think when people say I read it literally, I think they don't realize they're saying I read it lazy, I read it lazily, because literally is like I read the word for what it word for word, word for word. Um but that's words don't mean words like you know what I mean, like and so Right. And like because I know Literal takes into context and takes into conversation.
SPEAKER_00I know you do this and in with your logos program, I use like blue letter Bible, um, but you can break down and see what the original Greek and Hebrew word was and what are the meanings of that term, because language is different and and words have multiple meanings, and and so understanding that and and so like when I'm really I know personally, like as a lay preacher, I don't know if you can call me a lay preacher, but um but you're a slave preacher, you slay. Oh, this is a million. But but uh but I know like when I'm reading personally, like and I'm really struggling with the verse, like I really want to have that deeper understanding of what do those words mean? What is the author really trying to say here? And that includes going to multiple versions of the Bible. And we didn't really talk about it here. That that was your sermon a year ago, right? I think so. Yeah. Where there we talked about the different um transliterations slash translations of the Bible, right? And and go from there. So yeah. All right. Um We're at our questions now? Uh yeah. Oh, yeah. Our our our posse questions. Okay.
SPEAKER_02It's called questions from the crew. All right, questions from the crew. Okay, okay. I got two questions. One question, one response. So first question is why are we not supposed to read the book of Enoch?
SPEAKER_00I don't know anyone's ever told you not to. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Second question. Thank you for this podcast. It's definitely speaking to me. Oh, it's very nice. Thanks. We are speaking. I have felt pro. While I do not know enough or I'm ready to talk to people about the Bible, I feel as if I am somewhere in the middle. I would love to have a wise Christian to walk with and talk with. And I also feel I could walk with a new believer and walk with them.
SPEAKER_00So that's very awesome. I love that. And and let me I'll say put your name on it so we can help you out if you're here. If not random send us another message and then put your name on that one, and then we'll hook up with you and we'll get you walking through this. Um that's always been one uh for for years now. Um it came from a uh a radio preacher, I don't remember who it was, about having a Paul and having a Timothy. Who's your Paul? Who's your Timothy? And so very wise in what you're saying because that's the way the Bible lays things out. Like it the New Testament shows us that that hierarchy of you need someone to mentor you and you need someone to be mentoring. Yep. And so, so uh congrats to you uh in in being wise in that. The other part I'm gonna tell you is it um no one's ever gonna know enough, right? Um, and and it's okay to say, and I think we started our series with saying it's okay to say, I don't know. Yep, there's a lot of things that Steve and I sit here and we don't know. We talked about a him and I after church talked about a verse that we're like no one really knows what this means. And and even your greatest theologians and commentators are like, we just kind of have given up on that one and and and no new insights ever come out of them. So don't ever feel like you don't know enough.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and my in my journal, I when I read and write, I have a lot of I write verses and then I'll put question marks by them. I have a lot of question marks. I'm like, what the heck?
SPEAKER_00There's a few in Hebrews I always struggle with. Like there's a whole like it's not a full chapter, but it's like half a chapter. It's like it's it's a rough one.
SPEAKER_02Um we've finished our segment. Okay, we're I'm trying to drive this train home.
SPEAKER_00To drive the train home.
SPEAKER_02We can be an hour-long podcast. Okay. Uh let me call this section Quickfire. Quickfire. We're gonna have graphics someday. Quickfire.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00No, we're not.
SPEAKER_02No, because I have to do it.
SPEAKER_00You have to do it, that's why.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Favorite book of the Bible.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I had that one. Um, Hebrews. Okay. That's not a surprise for you, though. What's yours?
SPEAKER_02Not Hebrews. Everything but Hebrews. Leviticus. I was gonna say Leviticus, yes. By the way, if anyone wants me to do a year-long sermon series on Leviticus, I'm at like 20 some sermons right now. I can get there.
SPEAKER_0020 sermon ideas.
SPEAKER_02I can get well, yeah, but I an idea is where it starts.
SPEAKER_00All right, that's fine.
SPEAKER_02Um the Bible is um I love uh Philomen because I think it's such a beautiful story. It's short, but it is so awesome. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I just thought it was because it was short. That's why you love it. I do like shorts. Um most difficult book for the Bible. I agree. Or probably Romans.
SPEAKER_02Romans is very difficult.
SPEAKER_00Romans is hard too. I agree.
SPEAKER_02I'm preaching from Romans this week, so that's gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_00It's a toss-up between Romans and Hebrews. I would agree with that.
SPEAKER_02Okay, for you. N I V, E S V, N L T, New King James, KGV. Where are you at?
SPEAKER_00These are versions of the Bible. Yeah, uh, I actually use Holman. Okay. H Colo. H C S B. He uses his own version. Okay. No, I no, and we talked about this yesterday, actually, didn't we? And and um because it's funny because your favorite verse in John about um uh Jesus uh took up dwelling amongst us. Took a what? Dwelling. He dwelt amongst us, right? He pitches ten. Yeah, yeah. And and you're like, it really means move into the neighborhood. My my translation actually uses the moves into the neighborhood uh analogy. That's why how you know it's not. But I like I I like uh Holman because in the Old Testament um they do translate Lord is Yahweh um when it's appropriate. Okay, and so that that's really kind of m moved me in that direction.
SPEAKER_02I use ESV because it's been said ESV is the closest uh word for word of what the original language. So that's why I use ESV.
SPEAKER_00And I bounce like but my primary. I I used to use NIV a lot, but then I went to Holman. So all right. Um sorry. Uh weirdest Old Testament law.
SPEAKER_02Hmm. I mean they're all weird uh in in context. I mean, don't cook a baby in its milk.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, don't cook the calf in its mother's milk. What the heck? Which I I love how that's translated nowadays as you can't have cheeseburgers. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah. That's weird. Okay, physical Bible or phone? Um, gosh, it's tough. I uh I use my phone more often just because it's convenient, but but when I'm writing, I usually have the um I have my copy, but but I use the online, I use it on the computer too, because I can have side by side right. So it helps me to see multiple versions at one time. But yeah, usually my phone. That's all the questions I got. Really? Oh. You got more? Give me more. Oh yeah. I'm ready for them. Um oh this one's fun. And set up the question. No.
SPEAKER_02Well quickfire. This is not quickfire.
SPEAKER_00Audio Bible count as reading, yes or no? Yes, of course. Okay, good. I just want people to do that. I want people to feel that way. Yeah, oh my gosh. Please, please, please. Um driving in your car. Oh, read through the Bible plan, helpful or guilt machine.
SPEAKER_02Um so I find it helpful. Um, I am in one. It like a a year Bible reading plan will probably take me two years, um, maybe longer, because I I miss a day here or there. And so uh the UVersion Bible has a catch-up button, which I love. So I catch up and I get caught back up. Like it just pushes the day forward. But so yeah, I I for me, it for me, I like it because it keeps me on track. I could see how it would become a guilt thing. I think if it becomes a guilt thing, then stop and then figure something out. But also maybe address that and be like, why am I feeling guilty? And walk through that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Uh highlight or never mark? I already know your answer. Oh, my Bible's a total. Yeah, your Bible's totally highlighted. I I mark, but very rarely.
SPEAKER_02Highlighted, toro. I mean, look at that. I just took to a page. Highlighted, torah, every. I mean, everybody.
SPEAKER_00That's why I like the on online version too, because I can highlight whatever I want and note take on that one. Um, who has worse handwriting in their Bible? Me, me or you? My handwriting is the worst. Your handwriting is awful.
SPEAKER_02I send out birthday cards to people. If I have your birthday, you get a card from me and you can't read it.
SPEAKER_00I can. I can actually read your handwriting. I try. It takes work. It takes work, but I uh your handwriting is awful. I think it's a thought that matters. It does. I appreciate every single time I get a card or a note from you. You're you're very thoughtful in that one. What do you think the most misquoted verse is? I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. That misunderstood or misquoted?
SPEAKER_02Well, I guess it's the same thing. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00Misquoted is like you change words to Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I was curious. Um What's one book every Christian should study deeply? What book of the Bible? Sorry. What what's one book of the Bible that you should study really deeply?
SPEAKER_02I think I mean I I don't know, that's a tough question. I mean any book. I mean the Gospels are obviously the s story of Jesus, so I would start there and if you just read what Jesus says over and over again, I think you'll be alright.
SPEAKER_00What's one passage you've changed your interpretation of over time?
SPEAKER_02Uh where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in their minute. Interesting. That doesn't have to do with uh attendance, that has to do with church discipline. I agree. I agree.
SPEAKER_00Um most underrated book.
SPEAKER_03In the Bible? Song of Solomon.
SPEAKER_00Um chick a mile. I think that's the most underpreached book. I don't know if it's most underrated. There we go. That's a challenge for you. Is that a challenge? I'll do it. I would love to love that one. That would be great. Hey, so here we got.
SPEAKER_02Next year at Lincoln Lake Christian Church, you pick year in Leviticus or Year in Solomon Solomon, and we will see uh how long this church stays open.
SPEAKER_00There have been sermon series, not here, but there people have. I don't disagree.
SPEAKER_02You never you read it.
SPEAKER_00I please. Um Okay. Study Bible, essential or distracting?
SPEAKER_02That's it. Uh uh well, I don't know. Nothing's essential. I mean essential. I think it's very beneficial. Essential is a real hard word.
SPEAKER_00I agree.
SPEAKER_02Um Why did you say it then?
SPEAKER_00I was trying to make it quick. Okay, good. Um it's funny, like when I used uh in an old group I used to work uh. This is how these questions go off the red. We I always have side stories. Um we we always would call uh jokingly call them the uh uh God-inspired uh footnotes of the Bible. Because they were so like there were so many things like that's dumb. Why would you write that? Um, this is a fun one. Uh how much Greek do you actually need to study the Bible? Exactly. I just wanted you to say that. Um is doubt dangerous? I like these. You're quick on these. I know. Um does archaeology matter for faith?
SPEAKER_02Um I don't I mean, I don't I what Christ says blessed is he who doesn't see and still believes. Um I don't know. Is it what'd you say? Is it beneficial?
SPEAKER_00Is it does it matter for faith? I don't uh I don't think it matters. I think it incur I think it could be a bit of a Yeah, I think it depends on the person. Because like I know pe I think I think it's on a spectrum. I know people who are like, I just believe because I believe, and I know people who are like, I need some more just to help me out a little bit more.
SPEAKER_02I can't wait to do Song of Solomon. This is awesome, dude. Your teeth are like a flock of shorn ooze ewes, your lips are like a scarlet thread, your mouth is lovely, your neck is like the Tower of David. Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle that graze among the lilies. Um that girl's boobs are eating something.
SPEAKER_00I don't think that's what that's what I'm read I'm gonna do. Are you doing a literal right there? Okay. Um last couple. Uh why Leviticus? Why is it why does it exist as a book? What's important about it? What? We're gonna do a whole sermon sermon series on that. Why genealogies in the Bible?
SPEAKER_02Oh, because it it tells a story. I mean, it's part of the story. And you can trace everything back. And there's a lot going on with Matthew's really clever. With Matthew opens it with his 14, 14, 14. There's some neat things there.
SPEAKER_00You did and you've done I I think you talked through a Christmas sermon series on that one, so right. Um Okay. What percentage of Christians could explain why Israel matters?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I don't know. I think I I don't know. Um that's a good question. I don't know. I I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I don't know. Probably I don't know, not a lot. Okay. Or maybe I don't know, maybe misunderstand. I think a lot more people misunderstand than explain what it meant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so misinterpret me. Okay. The last one, favorite favorite prophet. Elijah. Ooh, I like that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, we're done. That was it finally.
SPEAKER_02My gosh, this is like an hour long. Oh my lord, to edit this thing is gonna stink. And I gotta take out the boob comment.
SPEAKER_00No, you don't. It's in the Bible, it's it's fair game.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes boob is his breast. Oh, really? Okay, next week we got a fun sermon because next week is uh if I follow G if I believe in Jesus, follow Jesus, why do I still mess up?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I like that one.
SPEAKER_02And the question that the kids submitted were um, is it okay to be the prodigal?
SPEAKER_00Whoa, that's a fun question. That was a fun question. I remember reading that one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we're gonna have some fun with that this week. Um Yeah, that's what we got the devotional. You can follow along in the app. Yep. You get our email, listen to the podcast, what else? Send us to questions. Please send us messages.
SPEAKER_00And uh and again, if you're the one who sent that last message, please, please reach out to us. Whether you go here or not, like in all honesty, reach out to us. We'd love to comment.
SPEAKER_02Nobody that doesn't go here is watching.
SPEAKER_00You don't know that a hundred percent. You don't know that.
SPEAKER_02All right, that's it then, right? That's it. I got my tagline.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what's your tagline?
unknownKeep asking good questions.
SPEAKER_00And don't forget to smash and smash and subscribe. Smash and the like button and subscribe.
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