Not for Sunday Mornings
When the Sunday sermon isn't enough. Join us as we unpack what was spoken about on Sunday with all the extra stuff that didn't make it.
Not for Sunday Mornings
Why did Jesus have to die?
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Can God really forgive without justice? Why all the blood sacrifices? And… will we still be married in heaven?
This week on Not For Sunday Mornings, Chris is officially in the hot seat after preaching on one of Christianity’s biggest questions: Why did Jesus have to die? Steve pushes back on everything from God’s justice and the sacrificial system to the torn temple veil and what it actually means to live forgiven. Along the way they wander into Hebrews, Leviticus, Indiana Jones (sort of), and somehow end up answering a listener’s question about marriage in heaven. If you’ve ever wondered why the cross was necessary this conversation is for you.
Okay. Okay, okay. So I uh I want to begin today before we begin with a question.
SPEAKER_00Alright.
SPEAKER_01What's something in church that made absolutely no sense to you as a kid? We can't have dead air. You're right.
SPEAKER_00Well, but you popped this question on me. Okay, something that made no sense to me as a kid. Um gosh, uh I would probably I would probably say the Trinity, and it still boggles me to this day. Like I just don't get it.
SPEAKER_01I thought you were gonna go funnier.
SPEAKER_00Oh, sorry. I'm not I I didn't know that that was meant to be a joke.
SPEAKER_01You know, it doesn't make sense to me now. Why do we keep the bathroom doors propped open here at Ling Away?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know why we do that either, but I don't know. Tradition.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, tradition. Yep. Okay, okay, go ahead. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Well, um, I'm Chris Bachman, and this is uh Steve, and um we are on week three.
SPEAKER_01Uh Welcome to Not For Sunday Mornings. You're supposed to introduce the podcast.
SPEAKER_00I was. We're on week three of Not for Sunday mornings, right? Yes. All right.
SPEAKER_01So Today I get to be the host.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I I preached, so I get to be in the hot seat on this one.
SPEAKER_01Chris preached on Sunday. He did a great job. So um uh we always begin with some things that the host liked about the sermon, so we're gonna skip that section. Yeah, that's that's fair.
SPEAKER_00That's fair.
SPEAKER_01I'm kidding. What I liked, uh a couple of things you said. Um a rectangle and a rectangle, which I thought was pretty funny. But you're like a rectangle and a rectangle. That's a little I like that you quoted uh me, context before context. Yeah, well, I tried I try to Everybody, man, what the heck?
SPEAKER_00No, I do that in I try to do that intentionally because I stole that from Gary Johnson. So well, yeah, but it but it's a thing, like and and it's a legitimate thing, and and and since you go every week, I don't I want to honor you in doing that too, you know.
SPEAKER_01So and I was at I was at youth this last week for camp, and uh I said it during that and they repeated it. It was awesome.
SPEAKER_00That was the first time actually that anyone has ever filled in the content for you portion for me. Yeah, like I because I do toss it in almost all my sermons. Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I like context before. No, they they kind of jumped on I gave maybe a beat, you know, but but one thing I did like, I mean I did like all that, but I like you made a comment, you said the cross becomes decoration, and I thought that was a neat way you phrased um Oh yeah. The way you phrased that was really cool because it can just become a decoration. So that was good. I thought it was good. I enjoyed the sermon. I I took lots of notes and I have some things to push back on in a little bit. But before we get there, one of the questions we ask every week is uh what didn't make the sermon? Now you talked for about four hours, so I think a lot did make the sermon, but I was right in that 30 minutes.
SPEAKER_00I think I was a minute over, actually. I did pretty good. It was it was tight because that's a running joke. Because it is a running joke for us. Um because it's true. It's not it is. I do talk a lot. I'm not gonna deny that. Um because it's funny too, because when I write um and you write, like your word counts usually like 4,000. Oh, 4,500. 4,500. Yeah, yeah, that was a 3,000, actually less than 3,000 words.
SPEAKER_01That is crazy. You talk so slow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what my wife says too.
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm 4,500. If I'm not at 4,500, 4,500 gets me 25 minutes of sermon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and 3,000 got me like 27 plus. Yeah. Like when I timed it on Saturday before, it was 27 members.
SPEAKER_01Do you do a lot of pauses? Like a lot of like, huh?
SPEAKER_00Uh I do, I do pause. I I mean, I I always go back to um when I get up on stage like and talk, or anytime I talk in front of people, um, I think a little theater background comes in and knowing how to to let things hang and and and give people the opportunity to think. I think teaching helped with that a lot too, because like when when well, but it's a backwards way of telling me I don't know. No, but we have different backgrounds, right? And and and in all honesty, most people who don't know, like you kind of stumbled into this position.
SPEAKER_01Stumble. Stumble's a rough word.
SPEAKER_00You're right. I mean, it's not fair to say that God's calling. It is God's calling, but but I mean, before you did this, like, how long did you deliver pizzas and make pizzas for? Yeah, like how old were you when you stopped doing that? I don't remember. I was trained in the real world. You were, but you were. I mean, in all honesty, like I remember when Jeff How did this not make the sermon? I don't know. Sidebar or have a trail.
SPEAKER_01Oh Lord, it's gonna be a long one.
SPEAKER_00It will. But I remember when Jeff had you start preaching here, and I mean, you had no formal training or anything in in that. So you're a King David. Yeah. Well that's a good person to compare yourself with. I'm just saying. Okay. So so yeah, I mean, I I think I just had more experience in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I did I did grow up with some theater though, too, in in high school and stuff, but not the but anyway. So, anyways, what didn't make the sermon?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so what didn't make the sermon? So um there was actually a lot. It it's tough, like, and and this is again, I'm a lay, I'm a lay pastor, and so I have no formal training except for what I've taught myself and and just the years I've been in church. And so um, you know, this was the gospel message sermon. Like, and I've never, you know, we always try to tie the gospel message in because it should be, but this was just a flat out, this is the gospel message, and it's it was tough because there's a lot that you can say about the gospel, you know, you can be very short and very pithy, right? Like if we were gonna answer the question, why'd God die? And we could have said he died for your sins, walked away and had had the rest of the afternoon to do whatever we wanted to, right? And yeah, and so but but to get people to really understand it, so you know, there was a few things that um it really talking about the um the mercy seat. So the Ark of the Covenant, like um, it's there's it's really interesting. There's a a Greek word uh that is used um and and it's not quite known when and how to translate it fully. It's it's like Hysileon or something like that. Okay. And one of the translations is the mercy seat, so in reference to the Ark of the Covenant. The other is atonement. And so it so they don't know when to translate it as atonement or when to translate it as mercy seat sometimes in the in the Bible. And it's funny that they both have that that same meaning. That word is used for both of those, and and then you start to look at because we I didn't use the word atonement really, except for our day of, right? So so um so going into that depth of the the ark the ark of the covenant and um the day of atonement, and that word atonement uh means covering, which is where it makes sense, like the mercy seat is part of the covering of the ark and and whatnot. So that was one of the things I I kind of left out of there, um, just because it got bogged down a little bit in there, and then um definitely could have gone a lot more into depth of like the importance of Christ as the sacrifice. Like he Hebrews is a beautiful book, and and I know you know it's one of my favorites, and and it's one I study a lot. Um, and I'm still don't even feel like I know it that well. And so, but one of the messages Hebrews brings together is is it ties the idea of who Christ is and the fact that he's a perfect sacrifice and he's the high priest, and he has all these different things um that make what he did important and special. And um, so it's hard to dig into that in 30 minutes kind of situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So that was good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I is that all?
SPEAKER_00Or okay.
SPEAKER_01So I got some stuff I want to push back on. Yeah, go ahead. This is a segment we call Can I Push Back?
SPEAKER_00Can I push back?
SPEAKER_01We should have like words come up.
SPEAKER_00That's uh we'll talk to our intern. Yeah. Yeah, that intern.
SPEAKER_01All right. All right, you made this comment. You said uh forgiveness without justice isn't loving its corruption. That's what you said. So um, why uh if God is all powerful, why couldn't he just simply choose to forgive? Why is justice so necessary?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's that's an interesting point because it kind of I felt like when I was dealing with this and when you were dealing with who God is and as the first message, there's a lot of overlap, right? And so one of the the key characteristics of God is his holiness and and his justice. And um the way that we have to understand justice is is not it's hard to when we talked about how do we understand God, it's hard to understand him fully. So it's hard hard to understand like how you can have a being that is so holy that has never experienced sin because we don't live in that world, right? And so um so because his holiness is there, he can't tolerate sin. So when there's sin in the universe, sin I I think I used the word once, uh, it's rebellion, right? And so so when you're an open rebellion against the king of the universe, how how is he supposed to handle that? Right, yeah, and especially when it's something so egregious to him that uh he he can't just ignore it, right? Yeah, so so why it's not just why it has to be justice, why there has to be justice is because it's part of God's character. And then and anytime you remove a piece of God's character, you move move who God is. Like you you diminish his him as a person.
SPEAKER_01Okay, then why all the blood? So if nobody nobody reads someone who hasn't read Leviticus, the uh whole system feels a little strange. So why animals? Why couldn't God have created a different path, a different way? I mean, why the blood?
SPEAKER_00So there that's actually a great question because the the the blood is never like blood is alluded to throughout the old and new testament in in in reference to to sacrifice, but it's never explained why specifically. But if you as you read through, um there's little hints that are dropped. So, like one of the things is that um the uh Jews and Christians are are not supposed to eat blood because God commands that the life force is in the blood, right? And so that's that's an old testament commandment, but it's renewed in in um Acts underneath the Jewish council and everything like that. And so um one of the thoughts is that because the life force is in the blood, that's why blood. Now, what does that have to do with anything? Well, if you like and have a hamburger today, uh huh. You can have your hamburger, just don't eat it raw, kind of well, I mean you can eat it raw. Yeah, that's the problem. Like we we have freedom to do everything, right? Like, but but the Jewish council says refrain from eating blood. Like when when they're talking about circumstances, no steak tartare. Yeah, but I mean, what do you do with blood sausage then at that point? I don't know what blood sausage is. It's that's an English English dish. Um anyway, so um so the life force is in the blood, and we are told that the wages uh Romans tells us the wages of sin is is death, right? And so um, if death has to happen and the life is in the blood, then that blood is part of the reason rationale be behind that is that that blood is showing that the life has been given up for that, right? And why in animals, because um it was a form of mercy, in all honesty. Like God was being showing justice by the fact that there was death, right? But at the same time being merciful that it wasn't the death of the person who committed the sin. Um and so then there's the other side of the because now the blood's there, there's a purifying side to it as well, like a covering almost. So like you're you're when they splash it on the ark, you're creating a barrier essentially between the holiness of God and the sinliness of man and and um and and kind of blotting it out, which you know, we're washed in the blood of Jesus, right? Like washed in the blood.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Did God kill Jesus?
SPEAKER_00No. That's an easy one. Next, no. God didn't kill Jesus um because Jesus willingly offered up himself uh for the sacrifice. And that's one of the things that makes a sacrifice so uh important is that he willingly did it on his own.
SPEAKER_01My last pushback. As you said, far too many Christians still live as though the veil is hanging. Yes. So uh what does that really look like? And then how do we know when we're acting like we have to earn God's approval? And what changes when we truly believe the veil is torn? So maybe that's too many questions at once, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think I kind of addressed like a little bit of what it means to what it looks like when we think the veil is still hanging. Because it it means that we we're fearful of God, right? Like we're we're afraid to come into his presence. We're we're we're we we act like there's a separation between us, right? And so but but it's not there anymore. And that and that's the beauty, like and it's hard. I think it's something difficult because I think part of it is who we are because um that set part of that separation is shame. Yeah, right. Like when we sin, we're shamed, we're ashamed of it, right? And so I I think I think we treat God like we would treat anybody else. Like, I don't want to go to someone and say, hey, I I sinned against you or I sinned today, and and here like there's a shame in that because I'm worried about how you're gonna think about me and how you're gonna treat me. Yeah, and and so when we when we treat God like the veil is still up, we're still worried about what's how's he gonna treat us? Like, is he gonna, you know, and we and and again, I think we understand, but I think it's hard for us to comprehend. And so when we don't comprehend it fully, we treat it in the most basic way possible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. That's all right. I think so. Okay. So the digging deep, this is our next segment. Digging uh deeper. Yeah. This is when you as the speaker get to drill down on it's kind of like the second segment, I guess. The second one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they kind of go together, and that's all right, and there's nothing wrong with that. Um, so one of the things that um it was a part that I left out, but I think it's worth digging deeper into it. Um, so here I'm gonna ask you a question. Um, what's the first recorded death in the Bible?
SPEAKER_01I would have to say the lamb that God killed.
SPEAKER_00You preached on that once, too.
SPEAKER_01I preached on it all the time. So Adam and Eve leave the garden, and before they leave the garden.
SPEAKER_00Now, this is This part of why I left it out, though. I thought I use it. You use it, and I and I figured you'd like to.
SPEAKER_01Actually, I used it at CIY this week.
SPEAKER_00Did you?
SPEAKER_01Adam and Eve leave the garden, and before they leave the garden, uh the scripture says that God clothed them. Now, how did he clothe them? But we don't know how he clothed them, so he could have just snapped his fingers and clothed them because he's God. Um, my a theory, isn't it my theory, a theory is that uh he killed a lamb and made clothes out of that lamb and thus the first sacrifice. I mean that's that's a spinny, pretty little tale on it. Now we know that for sure, but it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're right, right. And so so so there's a lot uh to impact there. But but were you trying to get me on that? Like I wouldn't have-like a lot of things. No, like when in all honesty, when I was writing, like I'm like, Steve, I swear Steve has taught on this. And I'm like, I'm not gonna use it because Steve's taught on it. Um there was way. No, I had to cut, otherwise, I'd still be up there talking today. That's why I'm here today talking.
SPEAKER_01Um longest podcast, right?
SPEAKER_00So um, so there's a few interesting things about that. When you look at um when Sen enters into the world, right? Um we worry about when it comes with God is that He's he's gonna hate us, so he's not gonna love us anymore. Right. But but what's the funny thing is is it's Adam and Eve go and hide, right? Yeah. But God comes and looks for them, even though they they sinned, right? And then and then when you go and you tie into the fact that a lamb is sacrificed, right? And there's this whole um uh, you know, one of the one of the names that is used for Jesus is the Lamb of God, right? And and so there's this whole cool thing about lambs, right? And so you go into Exodus and there's this daily sacrifice of lambs that has to happen every single day. And um, and you talk about the pet the Passover, it's a lamb that's sacrificed, right? And and why and and the question is why, what's the deal with lambs? And I think part of it's what's the deal with lambs? It's uh it's innocence, right? Like the lamb is is the cutest little tiny thing, right? And everyone thinks they're cute and adorable and fluffy and and whatnot. But that's my nickname in high school. Was it lamb? Lamb. Yeah, yeah. I can see that. So so there's this innocence aspect to it, right? Like there, there's this beautiful innocence. And then when you tie that into Christ, like Christ was innocent, right? He's the only one that of us that has ever been innocent, right? And so, so there's this beautiful like string that just flows all the way from Genesis all the way to Christ's crucifixion. Yeah um, that there's this idea of innocence, and so one of the things that makes his um sacrifice so powerful is that he's innocent, right? The other side is it's his blood instead of instead of the blood of of something else, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, and it's thirdly, it's the fact that um he's the high priest. So this is really fun. He's the high priest offering the sacrifice, which is himself. Yeah, and no other high priest could ever do that.
SPEAKER_01No, that's true.
SPEAKER_00And so there's there's this really fun um idea of Christ's sacrifice, and when you take and you break down all the components that we learn about sacrifice from Leviticus, um that when you look at them in Christ, he just does it better. Yeah, and that what and that's what that brings that finality about on it.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, now this segment we call it quickfire. Is that all? I'm sorry. Yeah, that's all Quickfire questions. This is when I get to pepper you with some questions. I've got a few.
SPEAKER_00Okay, go ahead. Do you have any or no? Um, I I have a few, but yeah, go ahead. Let's let's see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you made a comment about a movie trailer in the sermon.
SPEAKER_00I did, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I want to know what's the worst movie trailer ever.
SPEAKER_00Oh, the worst movie trailer ever? Okay, give me the best. Um gosh, I love movie trailers. Um well, it's hard because like they get you excited. So, like right now, I think the Spider-Man movie trailer looks amazing. Like, if I were if you were asking me, that's the best movie trailer ever. Um, that I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_01New Day. New Day, New Awakening, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00I'm really excited. It's getting me really excited about the movie, in all honesty.
SPEAKER_01What's the worst movie trailer?
SPEAKER_00Um, the worst movie trailer is um okay, so this is an old one. Um, the Twilight Zone movie. And it's got Albert Brooks in it in the trailer, and Dan Aykroyd. And the reason why it's the worst is because I remember as a kid, my dad uh took us all to the drive-in theater. Um, used to be over here in Juliet. And uh I don't even know what movie we saw. I just remember the trailer playing, yeah, and it was freaky scary to me. And um I won't watch it right now.
SPEAKER_01Let's have our intern put it in.
SPEAKER_00Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Too bad we don't have that intern.
SPEAKER_01Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, okay. Uh and another question. Oh, you want to we're going back and forth? What were we doing? No, no, go ahead. What's one misconception Christians have about the Old Testament? Go. It's boring. Okay. Number three, since you love Hebrew so much, what's your favorite verse in Hebrews?
SPEAKER_00Oh, see, here's where I thought that you here's where I thought you were gonna get me earlier. Um, but the part about Mc Melchizedek. That was last season. It was last season. I thought you were gonna bring it up in all of it. Like I was prepped for Melchizedek this week. Yeah. I'm like, I didn't I didn't mention Melchizedek once in my sermon. You didn't thank God. And uh so I was waiting to say to bring it up. Favorite verse is um uh that we shouldn't I can't quote it word for word.
SPEAKER_01Because that's not your favorite verse.
SPEAKER_00It is. I I so I have a problem memorizing verses word for word. Like I just it does.
SPEAKER_01Last week you sang a song from uh 1940.
SPEAKER_00There's music. Music helps me. Okay. There are verses I know because of music, but anyway, so so there's it's it it's Hebrews 10, I think it's 15. Um, we're we're told to enter um we're we're told to enter the holy space uh boldly. We can boldly enter the tabernacle and and because of Jesus. And so um we we have that opportunity.
SPEAKER_01All right, last Hebrews question.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01If you if Hebrews Well, maybe two Hebrews questions.
SPEAKER_00That's fine. That's all right. If Hebrews coffee, what's right?
SPEAKER_01The name of the author, what was her name of Hebrews?
SPEAKER_00What was her name? That's you took my class on that, didn't you? I forgot you sat through that. Because yeah, we we don't know the author of Hebrews, so there is potential her name was probably uh No, no, there it is, like there is because we don't know, like a lot of people assigned it to Paul. Yeah, but it what Paul didn't write that. But Paul didn't write it. No. Um, but there's like I think like four or five different authors that have been tossed around for it, and one of them is um uh the couple Priscilla and Aquila.
SPEAKER_01So potentially a woman wrote it? Potentially, yeah. So if potentially a woman wrote Hebrews, yeah, yeah. Why then can't a woman be a pastor?
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, you're setting me up on that one. That's a whole podcast in its own, right? I would say watch I would say watch Mike Winger's uh 14 part uh series on that.
SPEAKER_01And then talk to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh last quite Hebrew question. If Hebrews had one big idea, what is it?
SPEAKER_00Christ is superior.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that was easy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um Yeah, so um what does uh here here's a couple that I have for you, really quick. Um can't can guilt ever be useful?
SPEAKER_01Uh guilt, uh yeah. I think guilt uh I think guilt and shame are different. So yes, guilt is I did something wrong. Shame is I am wrong, or I am a I am like I am a wrong person. So like I'm the problem. So guilt, um yeah, of course. Guilt I think guilt is convicting and we do something wrong, we do something. Yeah, I I don't think it's a problem with guilt. Should there should there be?
SPEAKER_00Should there should be Is that a wrong answer? No, I don't know that it's a wrong answer. I I mean um because you and I talk about like I I think part of my message is part of what we we've talked about in the past about people not not not being not seeing God, seeing their forgiveness as what it is, right? Like we still keep trying to earn God's okay. That that's a common theme that we we kind of see um there.
SPEAKER_01We're never good enough for another good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So like even though Ephesians because that we are holy and blameless, which we are holy and blameless. Like that's the thing, how do you Christ comes in and takes over, God sees Christ, not us. And so we are we're holy and blameless. And so can we live like that? And and that's what Christ has done for us. But embracing that is a whole nother problem and challenge. So I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, I I could find a question. Would you rather teach Hebrews or Leviticus?
SPEAKER_01I hate Hebrews. It's the stupidest book in the Bible. Leviticus all day, every day. In fact, I think let's announce it right now. Next year, we're doing a whole year, every sermon, Leviticus, chapter one, all the way down, every verse by verse. I'm dying.
SPEAKER_00That's hard.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna do Christmas in Leviticus, Easter in Leviticus, New Year's in Leviticus. Don't you challenge me?
SPEAKER_00No, I'm just saying.
SPEAKER_01If that's what you want to hear next year, put it in the comments. The one of you listening.
SPEAKER_00Isn't Leviticus normally where people fall off in the full reading of the Bible? That's why we gotta bring it back. Okay, all right, that's fair.
SPEAKER_01I would love it.
SPEAKER_00No, I it's a great book. Like in the same maybe.
SPEAKER_01Right now, that seems like that seems the best thing for next year. I don't have to get away and plan the year of preaching.
SPEAKER_00Back um I'm being insider baseball. What's the hardest section of a sermon to write for you?
SPEAKER_01Um I think a lot of I think a lot the application part, because I've been often criticized by many sitting in this podcast, that my sermons are too high brow, all of a sudden I'm smart, which is 50% of that are are are too high brow and they're not uh easily explainable to people that take home. And so I feel like that part of my sermons is where I struggle with. The how do you tie in what was talked about? I sometimes I get really excited about the nerdy stuff, and then so I paint this big picture of like, whoo, but then to really bring it down to be like, and here's what this means this week. I think that's important. And so that's for me, it's probably challenging. Um, probably. And sometimes, I mean, sometimes it depends on the week. Sometimes the opening's the toughest, the ending, the middle. Yeah, sometimes the whole thing is. I mean, I I know little.
SPEAKER_00It's never easy.
SPEAKER_01So every week I question why I do it because it's I it's it's yeah, it's very difficult.
SPEAKER_00It's it is nerve-wracking. Like it's it's a hard thing. All right. Last question I have favorite Indiana Jones movie?
SPEAKER_01I hate Indiana Jones.
SPEAKER_00Seriously?
SPEAKER_01I never I don't think I've ever seen one. Really? No, I am not. No, I haven't. Wow.
SPEAKER_00I'm just surprised because you're my age and uh okay.
SPEAKER_01Indiana Jones uh Temple of Doom. Is that a movie?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that is.
SPEAKER_01That's the second one. Okay, I don't know. That's that's a good kid now. There's one where he chases He chases a rock, right? Or Rocky.
SPEAKER_00That's Raiders of the Lost Ark.
SPEAKER_01How was The Rock in that movie back then? Huh? How was The Rock in that movie back then?
SPEAKER_00He's not that he's not that much older than us.
SPEAKER_01So he's I'm saying the rock was in the rock?
SPEAKER_00He's not much older than us, so he could have been in the movie.
SPEAKER_01So The Rock was chasing Indiana Jones?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, something like that.
SPEAKER_01You are picking up what I'm thinking.
SPEAKER_00No, I heard I knew exactly what you're talking about. Dwayne the Rock Down. Dwayne the Rock.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so uh, as we ask each other questions, one thing people have to understand is they can ask us questions too.
SPEAKER_00Apparently, yeah, I just found that out this last week when we have it every year.
SPEAKER_01Nobody ever uses it. Very few people use it. But we really would wish you too. So a couple ways you can send in questions. You can email us at the podcast. Um email me, Sbaker at Lincolnway.org. Um, or you can um there's a little button that says ask us a question, and you can click on that and it sends us a message. You can leave a comment on YouTube. You can that's why. So what we did this week we did get a question.
SPEAKER_00We did.
SPEAKER_01And I'm excited about it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm excited about it too. Like, because number one, it was a surprise to me when you sent it to me because I didn't did not even know that we were putting that out there. I didn't send you the first one.
SPEAKER_01We actually got two questions. I didn't send you the first one.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we got two?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The first one is why is Steve so good looking? Sent in by S. Baker in Frankfurt, Illinois. Well, S. Baker, I'm glad you asked. I've been trying this new skin routine. I've been trying this new skin routine.
SPEAKER_00You have?
SPEAKER_01Okay, anyway, we do have a serious question.
SPEAKER_00There was a serious question. Um, we don't know who it's from. It just said Chicago.
SPEAKER_01Chicago asks this question.
SPEAKER_00If it's if it's one of you in the church, we appreciate it. If it's outside the church, man, I'm really excited about that one.
SPEAKER_01How'd you find this thing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, how did you how'd you come across us? All right, so it says, um, I'm really enjoying the podcast. Wait, did you write this? You wrote it. It's a bot, isn't it? Okay. All right. I'm I'm really enjoying the podcast. My question is, what is your take on will we be married in heaven? I have a hard time believing that God would give me this covenant relationship with my wife that symbolizes Christ and his bride, the church, and then take it away from us after we die. That is an awesome question. It is a great question. Um you want to start?
SPEAKER_01I want to start, and I have a lot of thoughts on it. First, I'm gonna read. So I always say uh when I have a question, you know, we're gonna go to the Bible and does the Bible have to say. Yeah. And so Christ actually addresses this uh head on in two different places. I'm gonna read it in both times similar responses, but in Matthew chapter 22, um, I'm gonna nerd out a little bit.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, go.
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna read the thing and then we'll talk about it. So and uh Matthew 22, verse 23. The same day Sadducees uh came to him who say who say that there is no resurrection, and they asked him a question. They said, Teacher, Moses said if a man dies having no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. Now there were seven brothers among us. The first married and died, having no offspring, left his wife to his brother, so to the second, and the third, down to the seventh. And after all, the women the woman died. Um which is probably why women live longer than men. She must have been killing those dudes. In the resurrection In the resurrection, therefore, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had. They all had her. But Jesus answered them, You are wrong, because you know neither the scripture nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they will neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. And as for you, the as for the resurrection of the dead, you have not read what you said to be your by your God. I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead, but the living. When the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching. So Christ tells us there is no uh marriage in heaven. And so uh let's talk a little bit about that, though, because I think this is so beautiful. So um again, we say context before look at that. And so when we're reading this, uh Matthew is putting this argument in between two other arguments. One, first the Pharisees are coming at Jesus, then the Sadducees. And do you know why they're called the Sadducees?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're Sadducee because they don't believe in the resurrection.
SPEAKER_01Very good. And then after this, he has a has a fight with the a lawyer. And so there's these three groups coming at him. Now the Sadducees had this uh you're very right, they had this belief in the resurrection. And so this whole um thing here is it's a conversation about the resurrection. They're trying to capture cat catch Christ up in this uh conversation about was the resurrection real, was it not real, um, and whatnot. Um and and the what the one so the So we're gonna talk about the marriage thing in just a second, but before we get to the marriage thing, he does this thing here where he says, um I'm sorry, I'm all over the place. The Sadducees also believe in the first five books, that was the five books of the Bible. That was the book. That was it. And so Christ then pulls in those five books and he uses Moses, their boy, and he says, Um, uh have you not read what was said to you by God? I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Now, Christ is saying this that God is the God of not God was the God of. And so in it just in that in that saying already, uh, how is he these people have died years ago? How he's the God of, because Christ again is playing with this whole resurrection thing that there is a resurrection. Um now, when it comes to um being married in heaven, so um I think when we think about we try to connect things that we know here on earth with things in heaven, I think we're very short-sighted in doing that. Uh like in heaven, there's not gonna be any need for um procreation.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_01And um so which again is a big part of marriage, not the only part of marriage, but one part of marriage. Um, I think that the love that is we experience between spouses, which we think is so fantastic, and it is fantastic, it is beautiful. Um, it'll be far more powerful when we get to heaven between God and it'll be greater than the earthly marriage. Um now I also don't think that means relationships disappear, right? I think that the intimate connections that we experience, they're actually gonna expand because sin is gonna be vanished, and so relationships, all relationships are gonna be safe, they're gonna be full of trust. Um our primary relationship will be with God, but we're gonna remain connected to one another, and our relationships are even gonna be stronger. And and where I where I where I kind of again try to be gentle here, uh, but where I kind of drilled down on uh I came across this quote from C.S. Lewis where he says, um I'm gonna read it the way he reads it and then kind of break it down. The reason why lovers in their carnal raptures don't bother about chocolates is that they have something better to think of. The boy knows chocolate, he doesn't know the positive thing that excludes it. We are in the same position. We know the sexual life, we do not know, except in glimpses, the other thing which in heaven will leave no room for it. And so again, we think of marriage, and he's equating sex and chocolate, but we think of marriage as this like but we really have such a limited view of what heaven is going to be like in regards to that. And so um, I I believe Christ is pretty clear in here. He says that. Uh, one of the things he does say though, and people get a little confused, is he says we'll be like angels, not that we will be angels. Which again, I think people kind of have this thought when you die, you get your wings and you and that's hot garbage, but whatever. Um, and so I think taking that apart, but that's kind of my answer, my long-winded answer to will you be married in in heaven.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think uh Paul reiterates the temporariness of of marriage also um in Romans 7. Um he he's using it as an example of us dying. Uh essentially he talks about when a woman and a man are married and the man dies, the woman can go and get remarried without being called an adulteress because she's free from the law because he's died, right? So so there's this point, like even Paul points to the temporariness, like by design it's just temporary, right? Yeah. Um, and then marriage points beyond itself too, because um Paul in Ephesians 5 um says marriage is ultimately a picture of Christ in the church, right? And and our our question person states that, right? Like it's it's it's this marriage. So if marriage is perfected in Christ's and the church, then we don't need this. It's almost like the tabernacle, right? Like the tabernacle Hebrews writes, the tabernacle is a shadow of things that were to come, right? So marriage is just a shadow of of something to come that we just don't we don't know. And again, we it's hard to understand what that looks like because we just don't quite grasp that. Um Luke does um add in uh chapter 20, verse 36 that they cannot die anymore because they're equal to angels, like you said, and the sons of God being sons of the resurrection. Um and so there's like you said, procreation's not really needed anymore. Because if the purpose of if the one of the primary purposes of procreation is for to create a new generation, we don't need that new generation at that point.
SPEAKER_01Is that the only purpose?
SPEAKER_00It's not. No. Oh, this is gonna get nerdy.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry, open this door.
SPEAKER_00So for well, no, old Catholic ideas were yes, that was the only purpose for, right? They now they refined the post-having sex.
SPEAKER_01I'm saying for procreation, like have procreation means having a baby, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so yeah. Not the act of baby. Well, it's procreating is the act of yeah, yeah. But I am so dumb. That's all right. No, wait, really? I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What do you think you do this for you think so? Do you say that?
SPEAKER_00No, we don't have time. Okay, fine. Anyway, so um so I agree with you 100% on the it just changes what the relationship looks like. Yeah. And and that's gonna be the hard part. It doesn't mean that we love are gonna love that person any less when they're in heaven. No. In fact, we'll probably love them more, right? We'll love them more. Um they'll be full, it'll be complete, they'll be holy. And so it's just that the relationship, right? Because because again, it's till death do we part, right? Like, and at that part, it's done, it's over. And and I know that's hard and that that breaks our hearts here, but but in heaven it's gonna be totally different. Like, and it's just yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I also yeah, I don't want to come off. I don't want to come off cold either, because I think that's because again, I uh it can become off very callous and like well. I don't want that to be the case. I just think that our view of heaven is so limited that we we're looking for comfort in little things that I think just it's gonna be so much better and bigger than we imagine. And so take comfort in that, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and and enjoy it, just like we can enjoy what we have here now, right? In all things, yep, it it it's just one of those added benefits that God said, hey, this is right. And I think and I'll jump back to that that reproducing part, because what's God's command? Go forth, you know, multiply, right?
SPEAKER_01Yep, my favorite verse of the Bible. Okay, here we go. Uh, we're finishing up. So, like we say every week, um, if you want a little more information, sign up for our email through the church. We send out little emails, reminders. We also have a daily devotional following the sermon series in the app. If you download the Lincoln Way Christian Church app, um, we do have a sermon upcoming this week. And this week's question is one of my favorite questions is why does bad things happen to good people? Why does God allow bad things to happen? And I think it's gonna be a great conversation. This week we actually have a guest speaker, um, Dr. Silas McCormick, he's the president of Lincoln Christian Institute. He'll be in uh answering that question because it's too hard of a question for me to answer. So no, I'm just kidding. But it's gonna be a great, it's gonna be a great sermon, and I can't wait to hear his his take on that. And then we'll be back next week talking about his sermon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, kind of breaking it down. It'll be a little bit different next week since he won't be here and uh for us to pick on. But yeah, it'll be awesome. It'll be great. But it'll be fun. So all right, well appreciate thanks for t tuning in and uh we'll talk to you later.
SPEAKER_01Keep asking good questions.
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